History We ALL Love a DARE! PIX of TRULY Extinct Makes?

Here's a movie on You Tube of the engine on the Heine Velox being restored now for the museum in Alaska.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mBGDxQ8Arc

 

HistoryDigger, thanks for posting and welcome! The Heine-Velox is one fascinating auto make, for a bunch of reasons, but info is spotty, especially about the apparently EXTINCT early series built in San Fransisco. Also, H-V holds a dubious record of being the only car company put out of business (temporarily) by the 1906 SF earthquake!

Someone posted early in this thread, saying that he had seen an H-V's remains in a SoCal junkyard, and he thought someone may have obtained it in hopes of restroing it. If that is so, MAYBE it's the fifth H-V you referred to, and MAYBE it's the only one of the EARLY series. Heck, I'd be happy just to see an early photo or factory sketch of how that series looked!!!

As for the second series, the styling strikes me as something that would have built for Tzar Nicholas or, maybe, Cruela DeVille! But what really IS awesome is the huge Weidley V-12 !!!

For my part, I am ALWAYS glad to see the name ocme up again, not ONLY because these cars were unique and VERY rare but because repeated exposure increases the chances someone WITH KNOWLEDGE will share it with us.

 

HistoryDigger, I spent some time looking for Molinari and came up dry.

But it looks as though Fageol -- far from being an obscure orphan -- has a pretty interesting and lengthy history -- though I am not yet sure if the company wasn't "remade" on more than one occasion. The Wiki list (about 650 makes) has Fageol running from 1900 to 1917, while HJ's "Mother" list just shows 1917 for Fageol.

There appear to be NUMEROUS entries on the 'net, so it's a target-rich search environment!

Wiki says two Fageol brothers founded a company in 1916 to make cars and "safety buses." The brothers left the company in 1927 and started a new company. I ran across a Fageol bus pic dated to the early '50s!!! So the real challenge may be in finding info and illustrations a a Fageol automobile.

But, hey, that's what this thread has been about, eh? Name it, then find out if one survives, OR is the make EXTINCT???

 

In talking about the Heine-Velox, the link to Queen needs to be mentioned. Before Gustav Heine even started making his H-V, he added the Queen line to his San Francisco dealership.

The U.S Queen is one of three unrelated makes built during the Brass Lamp Era, the others being British and Canadian.

In 1902, Carl Blomstrom in Detroit built a new car which he called the Blomstrom. 20 or so were made by 1904 when he changed the name to Queen. By one account, Queen was only made through 1907, while another contends the Queen was made to about 1920, and over a thousand were built. So, information sems spotty and somewhat inconclusive. Apparently the Blomstrom and Queen cars were chain drive brass-lamp cars and offered several cylinder configurations during their existence. (It might be noted that Wiki quotes the Blomstrom as being made in 1902-03, then again in 1907-8. Go figure.)

So, HJ, here again we seem to have one of those situations wherein one exiting make "morphs" into another with a different name. I'm really thinking NOW that this is an important factor in "inflation" of the actual numbers of U.S. auto makes. Hypothetically (call it a WAG), maybe the actual number of U.S. makes from 1896 to 1930 was more like 1,000, instead of 1,500-1,800, as some sources maintain?

 

The Fageol Automobile & The Fageol Motors Co.

Fageol
The Fageol Motors Co.
Oakland, CA
1916-1917

Frank R. Fageol was born near Ankeny, Iowa, in 1882. By the time Frank and his brother William were in their teens they had built what was said to be the first automobile in Iowa, a steam-driven vehicle that held eight passengers. In 1904 Frank Fageol moved to California and ran a Rambler agency in Oakland.

Frank Fageol is identified as president of United Electric Vehicle Co. and agent for Rambler automobiles in 1907. By 1916 The Fageol Motors Co. began building passenger cars, trucks and tractors at their factory located in Oakland, CA. Officials of the Fageol Motors Co., included president Louis H. Bill, Frank R. Fageol and his brother William B. Fageol.



1917 Fageol Touring Car
The 1917 Fageol Tourer shown above was equipped with a Hall-Scott engine designed by Elbert J. Hall. Fewer than 50 were made in 1917 due to priority to production of plane and truck engines for the war effort.

 

1917 Fageol Touring Car




1916 Fageol Motors Company Oakland, CA

 

HJ, you are super-fast, man. The 1917 below is great, but the
second pic showing fins on the hood looks like a Martin Wasp
to me. I know the first says it's experimental, but it bears little
resemblance to the second car. So, I'm wondering if the sources
were right on the '17 Fageol and off-target on the second car (?).


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1917 Fageol Touring Car

 

Technically, Fageol still exists, in the form of Peterbuilt.........


Though its name is closely associated with the romance of the lonely highway, Peterbilt's history predates that of the U.S. interstate highway system. The company counts its founding date as 1939, but its predecessor, Fageol Motors Co. of Oakland, California, had been started in 1915. It was originally known for luxury cars, but soon shifted to trucks.

Like Peterbilt, Fageol had a reputation for making high quality trucks with the best possible components. A bid to expand to the East Coast failed, however, and in 1932 Fageol was taken over by the Waukesha Motor Company and the Central Bank of Oakland.

Six years later, Sterling Motors bought Fageol's assets and announced plans to close the company. However, it was soon sold again to T. A. Peterman. According to The Evolution of Class, Peterman paid $50,000 for the factory and equipment, which was located on 13.5 acres.

Peterman ran a huge logging operation based in Tacoma, Washington, and needed logging trucks. Plans to produce a chain-driven model at the newly acquired plant did not pan out, but other trucks proved popular. The company's new name, Peterbilt, came from a line of wood doors produced by one of Peterman's facilities. The liberal use of plywood in the interior of early "Petes" was another link with Peterman's lumber operations.
From April 1939, when Peterman bought the company, to the end of the year, Peterbilt shipped 14 trucks. The first was a partially completed model destined to become a fire engine in Centerville, California. In 1940, 82 trucks were made. While wartime rationing slowed production following the nation's entry into World War II, within a couple of years, Peterbilt was producing for the military. By 1945 production was up to 324 units. In its earliest days, the plant kept busy by renovating various makes of truck.
http://www.hankstruckpictures.com/fageol.htm

 

Hmmmm??? Here, the spare definitely seems rear-mounted.
SO, maybe Carl Martin liked the shark fins he'd seen on an
earlier Fageol !!! This is the stuff that makes this thread so
interesting!

 

Wow! And not only THAT, SWI, there is the signature "stuff"
down the middle of the 1918 hood! I am glad the Fageol was
introduced to the thread. It's been a cool little investigation
and a cool piece of history (what with the ROOTS of Peterbilt.

 

Just wondering if any one around here might know something about these. LOL

 

Guys & gals, I love the second-series K-Fs. And I think this one is my FAVE! I just can't pass it by when I review what we posted recently. I just sit and STUDY it! Sure would be KEEN to see it from other angles (AND with a V-8 under the hood! LOL).

 

DOOOD! I dig those wires. Love to hit this guy up some night & stick THOSE on my '65 Falcon!!!

 

You can see it from all kinds of angles, Just go here.

http://oldcarandtruckpictures.com/EricGordonsKaiserConvertible/
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Seriously, SunRoof, I always wondered who made the real wires for the hi-price Chrysler & Despotos. Kelsey-Hayes, maybe?

 

Falcon???? Thought you'd at least put them on the '55 Desoto where they belong.

 

Good question. Who made the ones for the '53-'54 Buick Skylarks. I think those were Kelsey Hayes.

 

One neat thing about being in the Michigan K-F region is that most of the cars were built right here in our state! (Willow Run, Ypsilanti Township). This means that nearly all of the people that built the cars and managed the plant and distribution system lived here, and quite a few are still around, though many have passed on in the 50 or so years since K-F production ended. Recently we were contacted by a man who was a Kaiser-Frazer employee. He had been given, and saved, an old album of pictures salvaged from the K-F plant when it closed. These pictures were of scenes from the K-F prototype shop and its activities. We arranged for the pictures to be donated to the Ypsilanti Auto Heritage Collection Museum. This shot shows factory officials driving a prototype 1951 Kaiser DeLuxe two-door convertible out of the experimental garage entrance. The picture is dated April 25, 1951. Only one such factory-produced Kaiser convertible is known to exist today!

(Photo courtesy Ypsilanti Auto Heritage Collection Museum)



http://clubs.hemmings.com/clubsites/kfmich/gallery2.html

 

In 1987 I was trying to find a 53 Carribean to buy. I was hanging out at a friends restoration shop when a guy that used to work there came in with a dual quad setup. He said it came off of a 58 Desoto Adventurer Convertible that he was trying to get running so he could sell it. I told him I was looking for a Packard but I would check out the Desoto. Well, the next weekend I went out to his house (this was late October, early November) and out back under a tarp covered in leaves was a 58 Desoto Adventurer Convertible. Someone had put a continental kit on it. Overalll condition was not great but not horrible. He wanted $1500 for it. I told him I wanted to think about it and ended up passing because of the restoration costs.

They made 82 Convertibles that year and I see that one just sold for close to a couple hundred grand. I guess that goes on the "shoulda bought" list.

 

<table border="0" cols="1" width="800"><tbody><tr><td>A photo of this Kaiser convertible was given to Chuck Hucker by John Povlinski, a former KFOCI member. The car appears to have a 1951 front grill bar, 1953 headlight rings, 1953 chrome rear fender trim, 1952 or 1953 taillights, and external trunk hinges. It could have been a 2-door coupe. The car is light yellow with a black top. The back of the photo shows a date of December 2, 1998. Can anyone identify where this photo was taken and who owned the car at the time?
<!-- No-Spam Email script created with Webmaster Tools (http://webmastertools.sawpit.net). --><script language="javascript"> <!-- var showtag="@" var showlink="Click here to E Mail me"; var showname="johnmacdonald"; var showhost="summerville-novascotia.com"; document.write(""+showlink+"") //-->*</script></td></tr><tr><td>
</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Today, January 19 2009 I received the following message in regards to this car.
It appears we have found the owner but all the questions have not been answered. "Hello, that is my 1951 Kaiser convertible shown on your web site. I bought it last year and it needs quite a bit of help since that picture was taken. It was originally a 1951 club coupe and was customized about forty years ago with a non retracting top but with convertible side windows and a beefed up frame. It was a nice job and I am now gathering parts for it and hopefully it will look that nice again soon. There is another picture of it in the KFOC members roster for 2006. Gordie Chamberlin"

And a follow up to my questions to him.

"Thanks John. I was very surprised to see that picture and do not have a clue where or when it was taken but I am sure that it was probably at least thirty years ago and the car has been at KFOC functions for at least that many years. I got the car from Iowa and was told that at one time when the car was almost new a tree fell on it and crushed the roof. It was customized at that time and was being driven by the owners son who had an accident with it and damaged the LF fender and front end and it was apparently stored for a long time and that did not do it any good but it is still a solid car and I am looking forward to putting it back in nice condition. I would love to know more of the cars history and if anyone remembers it I would be glad to hear from them. I know that it was once owned by Fred Walker in CO and it still has CO plates on it and I also have some pictures of the car on a used car lot in Detroit. It must have had an interesting history. I live in Mission Hills CA but the car is stored and will be restored in St. Joseph, MO.
Sincerely, Gordie Chamberlin"
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<table style="width: 566px; height: 68px;" border="0" cols="1"><tbody><tr><td><table border="0" cols="1" width="800"><tbody><tr><td><center>[SIZE=+1]The saga continues[/SIZE]</center> </td> </tr> <tr> <td>Gordie sent me the following:
"I recently got two nice letters and more photos of this car from a previous owner. He owned it for several years and had put a new top on it and had done other work too. He sold it many years ago and it must have had many owners in the past. I would love to find the original owner who customized it. He did a great job! The mystery continues!! I will try to forward his letters to you. Gordie"

These are shown below.

</td> </tr> <tr> <td>Dear Mr. Chamberlin,

I saw your correspondence regarding your Kaiser on the oldcarandtruckpictures.com web site. I had owned your Kaiser from 1966 to 1969 when it was in PA and, if you are interested, I would be happy to share with you copies of my old pictures and what little history I know about the car. I would also be curious to know if you heard from any who owned the car prior to me.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Byron Shoemaker

</td> </tr> <tr> <td> <center>
</center> </td> </tr> <tr> <td> <center>
The following pictures are of the car as Byron owed in 1966</center></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr><td>
</td></tr><tr><td>
</td></tr></tbody></table>

 

Sheesh, AlsAncle! You and SunRoof surely know how to get me salivating like Pavlov's dog!!! THOSE are two FINE 'vert's from DeSoto's TRUE golden years -- short though they were. But, then, it's often be said that a candle burns BRIGHTEST right before it flickers out, eh?

 

1951 Kaiser Convertible

The pictures were submitted by Wayne Graefen along with the following text

"In 1950 when sales were good plans for the 1953 line included a possible Kaiser convertible. Evidently at least two prototypes were built up from 1951 coupes.

The blue car below, owned by Ed Hausgen, is the only known survivor. The car was originally yellow, but the car and wire wheels had been painted blue by the time Ed purchased the car.

Over the years a large number of Kaisers have been customized into convertibles. Many of these are just hack jobs, but the great styling of the 51s holds up well in the top down mode!"

 

1951 Kaiser Convertible

 

This 52 Kaiser was owned by Butch Daley 15 to 20 years ago.

In Butch's words

"I bought it from an old car junk yard in Idaho for $400 bucks. I was building it like a '50's style kustom but sold it before I got it done. I did cut the top off and drove it around for a couple years.

The stock drive line was still in the car when I sold it. I drove it from Reno,NV all the way to Paso Robles, Ca. one year for the West Coast Kustom's Memorial Day car show. The first picture is in front of the James Deam Monument inn Cholame Ca.

The next one is was when I won the "Slow Drags" contest at the WCK show.

The last one was after I shot some black hot rod primer on it and drove it to Paso again..

It sure was a fun car.

Thanks

Butch "

 

[SIZE=+3]Another Kaiser Convertible
[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Mike and Karen Barker edit the KF Club's "Quarterly" [/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]magazine and the KF Calendar are working on this 1955 Kaiser Convertible.[/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]It was originally a 1955 Kaiser 2 door sedan.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]Mike had the following to say on this project:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]"I sectioned in a 1964 Chevy Impala SS conv top -- using the Chev bucket, glass, vent windows, back seat, trim, etc. It fit like a glove -- I shortened the top 4.5 inches. Buick 350, GM auto, Nova subframe, disc brakes[/SIZE].

[SIZE=+1]Outside it is stock KF -- including steering wheel, dash, trim, wheel covers. I have some Dragon script and prototype script I may use.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]Windshield is Kaiser, chopped 1.5 inches[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Color -- I am leaning to Blue Comet Met with a Ford white top.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]I may use the SS front buckets and console instead of the Kaiser bench[/SIZE] .

[SIZE=+1]I have a '55 K hood ornament, it is badly pitted, but have most all other trim NOS[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]I have hundreds of hours into the project (plus $$$$$$)"[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+3]
[/SIZE]

 

1951 Kaiser Traveler Station Wagon Styling Sketch

 

1958 Desoto Firemite 3/8 scale promo car images at :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_omVEhf2uQ

 

Cut me, and I bleed MoPar, Hudson and Studebaker (my lymphatic
system is Packard). BUT in all honesty, some of Exner's Ghia-
rendered concept cars were sharper than others. Am I right? Here's
the '52 Chrysler Special. (These shots are thanks to Car
Styling, and much more can be seen at their site,
www.carstyling.ru/cars. )
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1958 Packard Wagon