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History We ALL Love a DARE! PIX of TRULY Extinct Makes?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by jimi'shemi291, Sep 12, 2009.

  1. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

    [​IMG]
    1915 Lamsteed Kampkar - an early recreational vehicle manufactured by Anheuser-Busch. The vehicles were mounted on a Model T Ford chassis and sold for $535. This example is owned by Peter Kable in Australia.


    Photo: Model T Ford Club of America (MTFCA)
     
  2. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

    [​IMG]
    Roland and Mary Conklin of Huntington, N.Y., made house-car travel a family experience. Their bus factory built the Gypsy Van, shown above, and in the summer of 1915, the Conklin family set out to see America.

    Photo & caption courtesy of the Smithsonian Institution, the Huntington Historical Society (New York), and Home on the Road: The Motor Home in America, a book by Roger White
     
  3. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

    [​IMG]
    A cottage on wheels, this 1920 Ford Model TT motorhome conversion has a sunroom and a back porch.

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    1921 Ford Model T camper conversion.

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    1921 Ford Model T converted to a mobile chapel - a motorhome of God, so to speak.

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    A 1922 family photo with a Ford Model TT that was converted to a motorhome by the owner, Carl Headlee.

    Thanks to Gloria Taylor and BrainardDispatch.com (Minnesota, USA)​
    <hr>
     
  4. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

  5. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

    <table style="width: 100%;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td style="padding: 1.5pt; width: 100%;" width="100%">
    1937 Ford Housecar

    One of only six said to have been made per year in the mid-'30s at the Ford plant in St. Paul, Minnesota, according to an article on this car in a 1993 "Old Cars" magazine article. Very few others--perhaps none--remain on the road, and certainly not in such amazing original condition. (The only other known example that I heard of was supposedly housed in the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, Michigan. But that turned out to be an early 1920's Model T conversion, the curator told me. He said he'd never seen anything like this '37!)

    When discovered in a garage (under a heavy cover) in Northern Minnesota in August 2001, she had only 19,000 miles, and the owner's manual was actually still in the glove box in like-new condition!

    She had always been garaged and treated with much TLC as a collector vehicle.

    The interior, all wood lined, was still the way it appeared in the '30s and '40s, complete with framed photos of the original owner on his travels(mainly to Florida) and his cabin in the North Woods, plus other memorabilia from the era.

    Built on the '37 Ford Pickup frame and cowling (powered by a 60-hp flathead V8 with aluminum heads), the rear framing is all wood, with the metal skin wrapped around it. The roof structure, too, is all wood, over which the heavy, waterproofed canvas top is still very securely fitted. The structure of the body is solid, appearing from underneath to be all oak, and still in a remarkably unaltered, undamaged condition. The door frames are thick, solid oak, and oak is visible around the window openings (as on the fourside windows in back) -- though it is painted over.

    [​IMG]

    She was a big hit at this campground once we got that

    great old flattie V8 hummin'! Note her expanding roof and the original dark green color, which had been repainted. I figure the canvas roof was originally painted in reflective silver to keep it from getting too hot inside. All four side windows open, while the back one tilts out to three positions. The windshield also tilts open at the bottom for natural AC while driving.

    Here are a few shots of her in August 2001, out on the road in the Chippewa National Forest north of Grand Rapids, MN... practicing for her next adventure:

    "Destination
    Wavecrest 2001."

    [​IMG]

    <script><!-- D(["mb","\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-size:10pt;color:black\"\u003e\u003cimg height\u003d\"276\" alt\u003d\"[]\" src\u003d\"?ui\u003d1\u0026amp;view\u003datt\u0026amp;th\u003d126b1199e05ec39d\u0026amp;attid\u003d0.3\u0026amp;disp\u003demb\u0026amp;zw\" width\u003d\"433\"\u003e*\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\n \u003cdiv style\u003d\"margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:0.5in\"\u003e\n \u003cp class\u003d\"MsoNormal\" style\u003d\"margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in\"\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-size:10pt;color:black\"\u003e\u003cimg height\u003d\"313\" alt\u003d\"[]\" src\u003d\"?ui\u003d1\u0026amp;view\u003datt\u0026amp;th\u003d126b1199e05ec39d\u0026amp;attid\u003d0.4\u0026amp;disp\u003demb\u0026amp;zw\" width\u003d\"433\"\u003e*\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\n \u003cdiv style\u003d\"margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:0.5in\"\u003e\n \u003cp class\u003d\"MsoNormal\" style\u003d\"margin:0in 0in 0pt\"\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-size:10pt;color:black\"\u003e\u003cimg height\u003d\"410\" alt\u003d\"[]\" src\u003d\"?ui\u003d1\u0026amp;view\u003datt\u0026amp;th\u003d126b1199e05ec39d\u0026amp;attid\u003d0.5\u0026amp;disp\u003demb\u0026amp;zw\" width\u003d\"433\"\u003e*\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\n \u003cdiv style\u003d\"margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:0.5in\"\u003e\n \u003cp class\u003d\"MsoNormal\" style\u003d\"margin:0in 0in 0pt\"\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-size:10pt;color:black\"\u003e* \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\n \u003cdiv style\u003d\"margin-left:0.5in\"\u003e\n \u003cp class\u003d\"MsoNormal\" style\u003d\"margin:0in 0in 0pt\"\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-size:10pt;color:black\"\u003e*\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"color:#8000ff\"\u003eA peak inside: a slice right out of the \n 1930s...just as\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-size:10pt;color:black\"\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\n \u003cdiv style\u003d\"margin-left:0.5in\"\u003e\n \u003cp class\u003d\"MsoNormal\" style\u003d\"margin:0in 0in 0pt\"\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"color:#8000ff\"\u003ethe original owner left it. All the windows open, \n with curtains on the four side ones and pull-down shades on the back \n window, as well as on the driver\u0026#39;s and passenger door \n windows.\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-size:10pt;color:black\"\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\n \u003cdiv style\u003d\"margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:0.5in\"\u003e\n \u003cp class\u003d\"MsoNormal\" style\u003d\"margin:0in 0in 0pt\"\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"color:#8000ff\"\u003eA wide storage cabinet is located under the \n bed.\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"color:black\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-size:10pt;color:black\"\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\n \u003cdiv style\u003d\"margin-left:0.5in\"\u003e",1] ); //--></script>[​IMG]

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    A peak inside:

    a slice right out of the 1930s...just as


    the original owner left it. All the windows open, with curtains on the four side ones and pull-down shades on the back window, as well as on the driver's and passenger door windows.

    A wide storage cabinet is located under the bed.

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    The wood headliner, with vent and canvas expanding portion visible. Four wood pieces hold it securely in the up position, while clamps hold itdown while driving.

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    More interior views....

    note the cedar branches hanging
    in the corners for that north woods aroma. Cabinets and<script><!-- D(["mb","\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-size:10pt;color:black\"\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\n \u003cdiv style\u003d\"margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:0.5in\"\u003e\n \u003cp class\u003d\"MsoNormal\" style\u003d\"margin:0in 0in 0pt\"\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"color:#8000ff\"\u003ealuminum sink (with a wood cover insert) are \n visible on the left. All the antiques stuck away inside, as well as those \n hanging on the walls, came along for the ride. Also note the table behind \n the driver\u0026#39;s seat, which folds down.\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"color:black\"\u003e \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-size:10pt;color:black\"\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\n \u003cdiv style\u003d\"margin-left:0.5in\"\u003e\n \u003cp class\u003d\"MsoNormal\" style\u003d\"margin:0in 0in 0pt;text-align:center\" align\u003d\"center\"\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-size:10pt;color:black\"\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e*\u003c/p\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\n \u003cdiv style\u003d\"margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:0.5in\"\u003e\n \u003cp class\u003d\"MsoNormal\" style\u003d\"margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in\"\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-size:10pt;color:black\"\u003e\u003cimg height\u003d\"288\" alt\u003d\"[]\" src\u003d\"?ui\u003d1\u0026amp;view\u003datt\u0026amp;th\u003d126b1199e05ec39d\u0026amp;attid\u003d0.8\u0026amp;disp\u003demb\u0026amp;zw\" width\u003d\"433\"\u003e*\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\n \u003cdiv style\u003d\"margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:0.5in\"\u003e\n \u003cp class\u003d\"MsoNormal\" style\u003d\"margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in\"\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-size:10pt;color:black\"\u003e\u003cimg height\u003d\"288\" alt\u003d\"[]\" src\u003d\"?ui\u003d1\u0026amp;view\u003datt\u0026amp;th\u003d126b1199e05ec39d\u0026amp;attid\u003d0.9\u0026amp;disp\u003demb\u0026amp;zw\" width\u003d\"433\"\u003e*\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\n \u003cdiv style\u003d\"margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:0.5in\"\u003e\n \u003cp class\u003d\"MsoNormal\" style\u003d\"margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in\"\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-size:10pt;color:black\"\u003e\u003cimg height\u003d\"288\" alt\u003d\"[]\" src\u003d\"?ui\u003d1\u0026amp;view\u003datt\u0026amp;th\u003d126b1199e05ec39d\u0026amp;attid\u003d0.10\u0026amp;disp\u003demb\u0026amp;zw\" width\u003d\"433\"\u003e*\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\n \u003cdiv style\u003d\"margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:0.5in\"\u003e\n \u003cp class\u003d\"MsoNormal\" style\u003d\"margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in\"\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-size:10pt;color:black\"\u003e\u003cimg height\u003d\"288\" alt\u003d\"[]\" src\u003d\"?ui\u003d1\u0026amp;view\u003datt\u0026amp;th\u003d126b1199e05ec39d\u0026amp;attid\u003d0.11\u0026amp;disp\u003demb\u0026amp;zw\" width\u003d\"433\"\u003e",1] ); //--></script> aluminum sink (with a wood cover insert) are visible on the left. All the antiques stuck away inside, as well as those hanging on the walls, came along for the ride. Also note the table behind the driver's seat, which folds down.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]<script><!-- D(["mb","*\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\n \u003cdiv style\u003d\"margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:0.5in\"\u003e\n \u003cp class\u003d\"MsoNormal\" style\u003d\"margin:0in 0in 0pt\"\u003e\u003cb\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-size:10pt;color:black\"\u003e\u003cimg height\u003d\"450\" alt\u003d\"[]\" src\u003d\"?ui\u003d1\u0026amp;view\u003datt\u0026amp;th\u003d126b1199e05ec39d\u0026amp;attid\u003d0.12\u0026amp;disp\u003demb\u0026amp;zw\" width\u003d\"300\"\u003e*\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/b\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\n \u003cdiv\u003e\n \u003cp class\u003d\"MsoNormal\" style\u003d\"margin:0in 0in 0pt\"\u003e*\u003c/p\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/td\u003e\u003c/tr\u003e\n \u003ctr\u003e\n \u003ctd style\u003d\"padding-right:1.5pt;padding-left:1.5pt;padding-bottom:1.5pt;width:100%;padding-top:1.5pt\" width\u003d\"100%\"\u003e\n \u003ctable style\u003d\"width:100%\" cellspacing\u003d\"0\" cellpadding\u003d\"0\" width\u003d\"100%\" border\u003d\"0\"\u003e\n \u003ctbody\u003e\n \u003ctr\u003e\n \u003ctd style\u003d\"padding-right:0in;padding-left:0in;padding-bottom:0in;width:100%;padding-top:0in\" width\u003d\"100%\"\u003e\n \u003cp class\u003d\"MsoNormal\" style\u003d\"margin:0in 0in 0pt\"\u003e*\u003c/p\u003e\u003c/td\u003e\n \u003ctd style\u003d\"padding-right:0in;padding-left:0in;padding-bottom:0in;padding-top:0in\" valign\u003d\"bottom\"\u003e\n \u003cp class\u003d\"MsoNormal\" style\u003d\"margin:0in 0in 0pt;text-align:center\" align\u003d\"center\"\u003e*\u003c/p\u003e\u003c/td\u003e\u003c/tr\u003e\u003c/tbody\u003e\u003c/table\u003e\u003c/td\u003e\u003c/tr\u003e\u003c/tbody\u003e\u003c/table\u003e\n\u003cp class\u003d\"MsoNormal\" style\u003d\"margin:0in 0in 0pt\"\u003e\u003cspan\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"http://www.incredimail.com/?id\u003d605277\u0026amp;rui\u003d123401786\" target\u003d\"_blank\" onclick\u003d\"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"text-decoration:none\"\u003e\u003cimg height\u003d\"140\" alt\u003d\"FREE Animations for your email - by IncrediMail! Click Here! \" src\u003d\"?ui\u003d1\u0026amp;view\u003datt\u0026amp;th\u003d126b1199e05ec39d\u0026amp;attid\u003d0.13\u0026amp;disp\u003demb\u0026amp;zw\" width\u003d\"476\" border\u003d\"0\"\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\n",0] ); //--></script>

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  6. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    SWI, did you already cover this one? This is ONE ODD little car!!!
    1921 Automatic Electric, Automatic Electric Transmission Co.,
    Buffalo, NY

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Sunroofcord not to mention some outstanding stories along with the outstanding automobiles. Congrats to your friend Ken Ganz. Ask him what fuels the cowl and tail lamps.
     
  8. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    I think the earlier pix of the ultra-rare, ultra-expensive Heine-Velox
    dropped off our thread, for some reasons. So here's another shot or two
    that were on eBay at some point. I don't know if this is the exact one that
    recently went to a Fairbanks, Alaska museum. But these are SO rare,
    I suspect it must be! This is a 1921, and they were also made in 1923.
    Though details are often frustrating, there is, nevertheless, a good deal
    of fascinating info on the web about Gustav and this wildly opulent luxury
    machine!

    The keen photo that was on before of the Weidley V-12 in this
    second-generation Velox of 1921 got lost, so it would be KEEN
    to see that huge engine again. It was WELL restored!

    Now, Gustav Heine, San Francisco piano magnate, started making his
    high-end cars from 1906 to (some say) 1909. Apparently, only three got
    built. And the '06 earthquake and fire forced auto ops to move, at least
    for some years, to the Midwest. There seems to be no record of what
    engines were used in the early Veloxes, nor, for that matter, not even
    a record of WHAT THEY LOOKED LIKE! That's a shame, since Gustav
    loaned his own Velox to the troops to help transport the injured and the
    dead.

    Not only did these huge beasts ride on a 148-inch wheelbase (!!!), they
    could sticker for nearly twice the price of a full-ops Rolls-Royce.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  9. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

    Harris Steam Bus or "The Beast"

    Written by George Albright, the current owner and originally posted on the AACA forum by Alsancle

    I was fortunate enough to uncover a photo from an old publishing regarding the "Beast". It describes the initial creation of the "Harris Steamer" and it's creator. Please look at the photo near the end. ENJOY! . Talk about a &#8220;barn find&#8221;. True one-of-a-kind futuristic designed vehicle built in the 1930&#8217;s &#8211; we call it the &#8220;beast&#8221; due to its size and weight. Close to 20 feet long and @ 5000 pounds &#8211; it&#8217;s BIG. Originally steam powered (by a Stanley steam engine). The engine was placed in the rear of the vehicle. The controls and gauges were routed to the front. Packard gauges and dish wheels &#8211; believed to be from a commercial vehicle (truck, bus, etc.). The condenser unit is still in place in the front (see photos). Unreal, hand built steel body. The metal work is amazing. Hand built aluminum headlight surrounds and window garnish moldings. The interior was designed with 2 single seats at the front and an &#8220;overstuffed&#8221; sofa type rear seat &#8211; the right side armrest storing the spare tire and the left side storing the fuel tank. The Story has it &#8211; this vehicle was being built as a display vehicle for the 1939 Worlds fair &#8211; unfortunately I was never able to confirm or deny the claim. The vehicle ended up in the Harris estate where it resided until the early 1960&#8217;s. A Grand Rapids resident purchased the vehicle with the intentions of a restoration. Needless to say, it was never restored. In the 1980&#8217;s a local resident knew of its creation (he frequently discussed its sale with the previous owner over a several year period) and purchased the vehicle for it&#8217;s engine and drive assembly. The engine was removed from the chassis and the vehicle was tucked away. I happened upon it in 2003 and mentioned to the owner if he ever thought he might sell &#8211; to give me a call. A few months later I was bringing it home only to receive a comment from the wife &#8220;What the heck is that?&#8221; &#8220;It sure is ugly; I hope it&#8217;s not staying here.&#8221; I had the intentions of fabricating/converting a motor home chassis to accommodate the body but now realize I have too many other projects and will never have the time to do it. This is your chance to own a piece of automotive history and futuristic design from the 1930's.

    More info from George Albright

    OK Guys got a little more info on the beast! Spoke with Dan Sheler of Mi. who owned the car in the 1980s. He read about the car in the Detroit paper in 1963,when he was in Detroit for awhile,working for Ford,doing the clay models of the Mustang. He went over to Mr. Hariss (or Harris) house and spoke with him about the car,and inspected it. He said the owner was quite proud of the car and wanted to show it off. Sheler went to see the car in around 1967 and found that Harris or Hariss had died and the car was gone. Then in the late 1960s or early 1970s,the attached photo below of the car showed up in one of the steam car magazines that was published at the time,offering the car for sale. I got this from Sheler. He copied it out of the steam car magazine at the time.He thinks there is a brief history of the car as text in the steam car magazine ad. Obviously this photo is of Harris Hariss in the 1940s or 1950s showing off the car. The owner of the car at the time must have gotten this photo from the family when they bought the car from the Harris Harris estate. Notice it has a bumper on it in this photo,which is missing now. If any of you have or know some one who has 1960s and 1970s steam car magazines,such as Art Hart,please ask them to go tru their magazines from approx. 1967-1975 and see if the ad with this photo is in one. Maybe in the text is referenced who actually built the car.

    Chassis and Interior photos with running commentary and some other interesting vehicles here;

    http://forums.aaca.org/f169/help-need-info-circa-1935-streamlined-264861.html
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 9, 2010
  10. swi66
    Joined: Jun 8, 2009
    Posts: 18,830

    swi66
    Member

    Hard for me to keep up which ones I mentioned yet.
    Yes, that one is mentioned in the Herman Sass book I have regarding cars manufactured in NY
    They had a very short life.
    [​IMG]
    1920 Automatic Electric Pleasure Vehicle
    Automatic Transportation Company in Buffalo, NY
    1920-1921


    Built by the Automatic Electric Transmission Co. of Buffalo NY. The 1921 Automatic Electric was a small 2-seater with top speed of 18 mph and a range of 60 miles per charge. It had a 65 inch wheelbase, and weighed 900 lbs. It sold for $1200. In 1927 the company was bought by the Walker Electric Company.
     
  11. swi66
    Joined: Jun 8, 2009
    Posts: 18,830

    swi66
    Member

    Yes, seen several of those over the years at Corvair conventions.
    A group of them about 8-10 years ago did a lap around lake Ontario and camped out near where I live so I went up to meet with them.
     
  12. swi66
    Joined: Jun 8, 2009
    Posts: 18,830

    swi66
    Member

    Yes, but ugnot also has the dubious distinction of having the first automobile accident too!

    <!--gc--><!-- About Linkbox Template Version 3.02 --><!-- Please replace any sample text in brackets [] with the appropriate information --><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=2><!-- Write Headline Here -->[SIZE=+1]The History of the Automobile[/SIZE]<!-- End of Headline --></TD></TR><TR><TD bgColor=#cc0000 height=1 colSpan=2>[​IMG]</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2><!-- Put Subhead Here. If this is a multi-page feature, put the part # ( ex: Part I: Exploring Your Computer ). If this is a single-page feature, use this space for a tagline that goes with the headline ( ex: Headline is "Draw!" and Tagline is "Bush / Gore Debate Ends in Deadlock" )-->Early Steam Powered Cars<!-- End of Subhead --></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2>[​IMG]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top rowSpan=2><!-- Content Area A. If and only if you are putting an image AND text at the top of the page, fill in the area below with your opening paragraph of text. If you are not using an image at the top of the page, LEAVE THIS AREA BLANK and put your first paragraph of text in Content Area B. -->[​IMG][SIZE=-1]Old Engraving depicting the 1771 crash of Nicolas Joseph Cugnot's steam-powered car into a stone wall.[/SIZE]<!-- END CONTENT AREA A --></TD><TD><!--Image Area A. This is where you put any image that would sit at the top of the page. Images should be no wider than 400 pixels. IF there is text next to the image make sure to align your image to the right using the ALIGN=RIGHT in your IMG SRC tag. If there is no image at the top of the page, LEAVE THIS AREA BLANK --><!-- END IMAGE AREA A --></TD></TR><TR><TD>[​IMG]</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2><!-- BEGIN LINKBOX TABLE --><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=170 align=right><CAPTION></CAPTION><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR bgColor=#ccccff><TD>[SIZE=-2][/SIZE]</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#eeeeee><TD vAlign=top>[SIZE=-2][/SIZE]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD bgColor=#cc0000>[​IMG]</TD></TR><TR><TD>[​IMG]</TD></TR><TR><TD><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR bgColor=#ccccff><TD>[SIZE=-2][/SIZE]</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#eeeeee><TD vAlign=top>[SIZE=-2] [/SIZE]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD bgColor=#cc0000>[​IMG]</TD></TR><TR><TD>[​IMG]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!-- Content Area B. If you are NOT using an image at the top of the page, your article begins here. If you are using an image at the top of the page, this is where your second or third paragraph begins -->
    By Mary Bellis [SIZE=-1]The automobile as we know it was not invented in a single day by a single inventor. The history of the automobile reflects an evolution that took place worldwide. It is estimated that over 100,000 patents created the modern automobile. However, we can point to the many firsts that occurred along the way. Starting with the first theoretical plans for a motor vehicle that had been drawn up by both Leonardo da Vinci and Isaac Newton.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1]In 1769, the very first self-propelled road vehicle was a military tractor invented by French engineer and mechanic, Nicolas Joseph Cugnot (1725 - 1804). Cugnot used a steam engine to power his vehicle, built under his instructions at the Paris Arsenal by mechanic Brezin. It was used by the French Army to haul artillery at a whopping speed of 2 1/2 mph on only three wheels. The vehicle had to stop every ten to fifteen minutes to build up steam power. The steam engine and boiler were separate from the rest of the vehicle and placed in the front (see engraving above). The following year (1770), Cugnot built a steam-powered tricycle that carried four passengers.[/SIZE]
    In 1771, Cugnot drove one of his road vehicles into a stone wall, making Cugnot the first person to get into a motor vehicle accident. This was the beginning of bad luck for the inventor. After one of Cugnot's patrons died and the other was exiled, the money for Cugnot's road vehicle experiments ended.
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  13. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    Legend holds that this incident was the source of the
    first public hue and cry for power steering, too!

    [​IMG]
     
  14. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

    Maybe, they should of thought about "Traffic Control" back then. LOL Of course, it still wouldn't of stopped him from driving into a stone wall.

    The arrival of the automobile early in this century started a revolution in travel - and traffic control devices have developed to keep 20<sup>th</sup> century travelers moving ever more safely to their destinations. Road signs were the first traffic control devices to direct travelers on their journeys. The evolution of these road signs provides a fascinating insight not only into the evolution of traffic control devices, but also to the pace of economic and social development in our Nation.

    The Horseless Carriage Arrives

    It was a bit like the old saying about being "all dressed up, and no place to go." The early days of the automobile found intrepid "tourers" out for a drive, only to wind up losing their way because directional signs were either nonexistent or they were broken, unreadable, or knocked down. In fact, as early as 1899, horseless carriage owners in New York City met at the Waldorf-Astoria Hotel for the purpose of forming an automobile club - the predecessor of the American Automobile Association - and part of their function was to place and maintain signs on principal local highways to guide drivers through the area or to specific sites.

    Records indicate that in 1905, the Buffalo Automobile Club installed an extensive signpost network in the New York State. In 1909, the Automobile Club of California undertook the task of signing the principal highways within a 250-mile radius of San Francisco. These could be actual signs, or perhaps they were colored bands around a utility pole. Similar clubs conducted comparable efforts in local areas around the Nation. Unfortunately, competition for signing certain popular routes was fierce and organizations became increasingly aggressive as to which club would sign which routes. One study noted that for 40 to 50 percent of the more traveled roads, it was common to encounter as many as 11 different signs for one single trail or route.

    But First, Some Other Firsts

    While automobile clubs were busy developing early road signs, other entities were developing devices to control the flow of traffic. For example:


    • 1911, a centerline is painted on a Michigan road.
    • 1914, the first electric traffic signal is installed in Cleveland.
    • 1915, the first STOP sign appears in Detroit.
    • 1916, the Federal-Aid Act requires that a State have a highway department before it can get Federal money.
    • 1918, Wisconsin is the first state to erect official route signs as part of its maintenance functions.
    • 1920, the first 3-color traffic signal is installed in Detroit.

    The First Signs of the Times

    In the early 1920s, representatives from Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Indiana toured several States with the intent of developing a basis for uniform signs and road markings. The group reported its findings to the Mississippi Valley Association of Highway Departments (MVASHD) in 1932. Their efforts resulted in standards for sign shapes, some of which are still in use as we enter the 21<sup>st</sup> century.

    These pioneers devised a plan to classify sign shapes according to the level of danger represented by highway situations. For example, round signs warned of approaching railroad crossings, which even then represented the most potential danger to the driver. The octagon advised of the next level of danger - the need to STOP for intersections. Diamond signs indicated more ordinary conditions that required drivers to be cautious. Rectangular signs provided direction or other regulatory information. All signs were black letters on white background and were limited to 2 feet (0.6 m) square - that was the maximum width of sign-making equipment. Because round and octagon shapes required the most cutting and wastage, they were chosen for the fewest installations. These shapes made sense because there was little illumination of signs and the rationale was that drivers would respond to the shape of the sign even when they couldn't see the letters.

    In 1924, the First National Conference on Street and Highway Safety (NCSHS) improved on earlier efforts and proposed standardizing colors for traffic control devices. Again, many remain in use today. For example, signs with white letters on a red background indicated STOP. White letters on a green background signified proceed. Black letters on a yellow background advised caution. Black and white signs providing information on direction and distance were specified for every intersection and junction. One combination that didn't last was white letters on purple background, indicating an intersection!

    The First Signing Manual

    Also in 1924, the American Association of State Highway Officials (AASHO, the forerunner of AASHTO) took earlier efforts one step further by issuing a report that combined the previous efforts to standardize sign shapes and colors. The report recognized the superior visibility of the yellow background and advised its adoption for all danger and caution signs, including the STOP sign. The use of red was rejected because of its inadequate visibility at night. This report was also the first to propose the shield to designate U.S. highways.

    The importance of the AASHO report is that it became the basis for the first guidebook, Manual and Specifications for the Manufacture, Display, and Erection of U.S. Standard Road Markers and Signs, in 1927. However, this manual addressed only use and design for signs on rural roads. Following a national survey of existing traffic control devices, the Manual on Street Traffic Signs, Signals, and Markings was published to address urban traffic control devices. This manual corresponded with the AASHO rural manual, except that material also addressed traffic signals, pavement markings, and safety zones. The manual also allowed smaller signs in urban areas, and the STOP sign was modified to allow red letters on a yellow background.

    MUTCD, Vol. 1

    It was immediately apparent that having two different manuals simply confused the attempt to standardize traffic control devices. Thus in 1932, AASHO and NCSHS formed the first Joint Committee on Uniform Traffic Control Devices (JC). In 1935, the first MUTCD was published. More accurately, it was mimeographed. The demand for the manual was so great, that a printed version was published in 1937. In comparison to the Millennium Edition, the 1937 printed version was only166 pages; content was separated into four parts that addressed signs, markings, signals, and islands.

    The 1935 edition set the standard for types of signs by classifying them as regulatory, warning, or guide signs. Regulatory signs were black on white rectangles (except the STOP sign was black on yellow or yellow on a red octagon); diamond-shaped slow-type signs warned drivers to slow down; signs that cautioned were square. The manual also promoted using symbols on signs because nighttime roadway illumination was becoming more common.

    The 1935 MUTCD also defined some pavement markings. For example, centerlines were required only on approaches to hill crests with a clear view of less than 500 feet (152 m), short-radius curves, curves with restricted view, or pavements wider than 40 feet (12 m). Acceptable colors for centerlines were white, yellow, or black, depending on which provided the greatest contrast. It also supplied much-needed clarification on the number, color, and meaning of signal indications. The 3-color signal was adopted as the standard for signal lenses.

    In November 1935, the first edition of MUTCD was approved as an American Standard.

    MUTCD Editions Reflect Life in America

    The 1935 MUTCD established the need for a manual that standardized the use and design of traffic control devices (TCDs). As the Nation grew and changed, the MUTCD has grown and changed. The manual has been revised approximately every decade to reflect that growth and change.

    Early revisions were just that - supplements to the existing edition. For example, in 1939, the JC issued a 25-page supplement to the 1935 edition. The supplement recommended changes for sign illumination, speed signs, no-passing zone pavement markings, signal warrants, and pedestrian signals. And, although illumination was recommended, white reflectors (red for STOP signs) could be used to illuminate all signs.

    The 1942, 208-page, MUTCD described the types of traffic control devices to be used during blackout conditions resulting from the war. Traffic control standards were not lowered for blackout conditions, but rather special blackout devices were to be used where necessary. For example, reflectorized beads were required for use on all pavement markings required for blackout conditions. Pavement markings were also used in lieu of many signs that would normally be illuminated. This, by the way, was the advent of using word messages in pavement markings.

    As the end of the war neared, traffic engineers realized that the MUTCD had to be completely rewritten. Work on a peacetime edition began in 1944, and a new volume was published in 1948. The major format change in the postwar edition was reorganizing material so that every control device was addressed in only one place. There was also a concerted effort to simplify word signs, and a rounded-letter alphabet was adopted as standard for all signs.

    The 1954 15-page supplement to the 1948 MUTCD included 47 revisions and a brief description of each. The most significant change is that the color for the STOP sign was white letters on red background, which resulted primarily from the development of new fade-resistant finishes. The 1954 manual also represents the shift from using mainly regulatory and warning signs on interstate highways to including guide signs. This manual also adopted the use of white letters on green background for Interstate highways.

    New MUTCD Editions Signal America on the Move

    Changes incorporated into the 1961 MUTCD truly supplement reflected a changing America. The text was 333 pages long and the manual had two new sections, one to address construction and maintenance operations, which complemented a major section addressing needs of the new Interstate Highway System. There was also a section included for civil defense signing.

    A completely rewritten MUTCD premiered in 1971. Some of the most significant changes included adding definition of "should," "shall," and "may" requirements. Orange was designated for construction signing, yellow markings separated opposing traffic, and there was a wider use of symbol signs. School signs were also adopted.

    The 1978 MUTCD contained two new parts that addressed highway-rail grade crossings and traffic control for bicycle facilities. There were also revisions addressing the fundamental safety principals concerning work zones, the need for traffic control plans, and an upgraded section on barricades and channelizing devices. New illustrations reinforced the signing and pavement marking standards.

    Revise, Update, Amend

    Succeeding publications of the MUTCD reflect the changing need of traffic control devices to accommodate increased traffic, higher speeds, more commercial traffic, and roads that serve travelers 24-hours a day in all types of weather. The speed with which technology, traffic control, and traffic operations change makes the MUTCD a dynamic and constantly changing document. This makes it difficult for those who depend on the MUTCD to remain current with new and changing standards and guidance. By publishing the MUTCD on the Internet, users have greater access to the most current information.
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    </td> <td id="footer-links" valign="top">
    </td> <td id="javadate"> <script language="JAVASCRIPT" type="text/javascript"><!-- revdate = new Date(document.lastModified); if (revdate.getYear() == 69) { // workaround for .asp pages (some browsers do not interpret the lastModified date properly); // just reset the date to today revdate = new Date(); } year = revdate.getYear(); if (year > 1999) year = year else if (year < 90) year = year+2000 else year = year+1900; month = revdate.getMonth() + 1; day = revdate.getDate(); var mon; if (month==0) mon = "January"; if (month==1) mon = "January"; if (month==2) mon = "February"; if (month==3) mon = "March"; if (month==4) mon = "April"; if (month==5) mon = "May"; if (month==6) mon = "June"; if (month==7) mon = "July"; if (month==8) mon = "August"; if (month==9) mon = "September"; if (month==10) mon = "October"; if (month==11) mon = "November"; if (month==12) mon = "December"; document.write(" Last modified: " + mon + " " + day + ", " + year + " "); // --> </script>
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    Last edited: Feb 9, 2010
  15. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    This fell out of the sky -- from an old copy of the earlier Weidley V-12 for the Heine-Velox GEN-II. NOTE the four separate valve covers, three cylinders each! Good thinking actually. Would prevent so much oil mess while setting valve lash, wouldn't it?

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Griznant
    Joined: Jan 4, 2010
    Posts: 93

    Griznant
    Member

    I may be completely off base here, but I thought I might add a bit of interesting history to this.

    I currently work in an old manufacturing facility in Elkhart Indiana. It just also happens to be on Sterling Ave. The building was build somewhere around 1910-ish and was supposedly built to make "cars". Suspended in the rafters are several incomplete chassis from some type of car/truck built in this facility during this time.

    Here are some pictures:
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    [​IMG]


    Keep in mind that I took pictures standing on the floor looking up at the structural iron work of the building and these are basically spanning the steel roof trusses. We have 5 1/2 of these things, and you can see that they are all riveted and have two crossmembers a piece. Any info is appreciated!

    Thanks,

    Grant
     
  17. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    SunRoof said: Traffic control devices have developed to keep 20<SUP>th</SUP> century travelers moving ever more safely to their destinations. Road signs were the first traffic control devices to direct travelers on their journeys. The evolution of these road signs provides a fascinating insight not only into the evolution of traffic control devices, but also to the pace of economic and social development in our Nation.


    Jimi: WELL said, SunRoof! And this dovetails right into a groundswell movement for improved roads and REAL highways! Up until the motor car came along, even intercity thoroughfares were IMPASSABLE through much of the wintertime (the very reason the Civil War wasn't fought during the winter months, ya know?).
     
  18. And the invention of Drive-through banking, beverage store, and fast food restaurants. :rolleyes::D
     
  19. Was it not the Romans who invented roundabout traffic circles?

    Odyssey, February 2009 by null M. B. C.
    Summary: The article presents an interview with professor Eugene Russell from Kansas State University who works on traffic problems.

    Excerpt from Article: Leonhard Euler worked on the Konigsberg traffic problem way back in the 18th century. Professor Eugene Russell from Kansas State University is an engineer who works on traffic problems right now in the 21st century.
    Russell is an enthusiastic advocate of a special kind of road intersection called a roundabout. At first glance, roundabouts look a lot like old-fashioned traffic circles.
    But modern roundabouts are actually an improved way to get folks where they're going. ODYSSEY asked Professor Russell to please explain the ins and outs of roundabouts.
    Traffic circles are an old idea dating back to the Roman Empire. With traffic circles, vehicles already in the circle have to get out of the way of vehicles wanting to enter the circle. This causes confusion and traffic jams. With roundabouts, it's the other way around. Entering traffic yields to traffic already circling.
    Yes. Splitter islands deflect entering traffic to the right. Then the circle guides the traffic counterclockwise back to the left. The design forces vehicles to slow down at the intersection. Slower means safer. But since traffic in the circle is always moving, a roundabout is still faster than an ordinary intersection with a traffic signal.
    Compared to an intersection with a traffic signal, a roundabout has 40 percent fewer accidents. There are still accidents in roundabouts, but they are mostly rear-end, fender benders. Dangerous head-on collisions and side-on (T-bone) collisions are virtually eliminated. This is why roundabouts have 80 percent fewer injuries and 90 percent fewer fatalities than intersections with traffic signals.…
     
  20. <CENTER>Roman Roads

    </CENTER>It is often said that "all roads lead to Rome," and in fact, they once did. The road system of the Ancient Romans was one of the greatest engineering accomplishments of its time, with over 50,000 miles of paved road radiating from their center at the miliarius aurem in the Forum in the city of Rome. Although the Roman road system was originally built to facilitate the movement of troops throughout the empire, it was inevitably used for other purposes by civilians then and now.

    ROMAN ENGINEERING


    Of course, the roads were used for trade, as were the waterways surrounding and connecting parts of the Roman Empire to itself and the rest of the known world. The Romans had exceptional nautical technology for their time; however their network of roads, even with the perils of land travel, was unparalleled in convenience and was often the only choice for travel or shipping goods. The Romans were the first ancient civilization to build paved roads, which did not prevent travel during or after inclement weather. Indeed, mud or gravel would hinder, if not completely halt many vehicles pulled by animals or other people, not to mention discourage travelers on foot. Roman engineers, however, did not stop with just paving Roman roads. Roads were crowned—that is, they were higher in the middle than on the sides to allow water to run off—and they often had gutters for drainage along the shoulders. Probably the mostincredible engineering feat concerning the Roman road system, though, is how well the roads were built. Many are still major thoroughfares for cars today. Indeed, their road-building methods were unsurpassed until the invention of the macadam in the 19th century. These technological advantages made travel and the shipment of goods across land much easier. Romans shipped lots of goods within the vast expanses of their empire as well as to the rest of the world. Goods were constantly being shipped throughout the empire, depending on the location within the Empire, as well as supply and demand. Present-day Great Britain, for example, was a valuable possession to the Romans because of its silver deposits, which were used for jewelry and money. Great Britain also supplied a lot of wool to the rest of the empire. From the southeastern corner of the empire, the Romans imported many dyes for clothing and make-up from the Near East. Over-water transportation usually played a role in imports from the Near East or Africa, from whence they imported Egyptian cotton, or exotic animals for the gladiators to fight. Of course, Rome was connected to the Far East via the Silk Road, the source of silk and other goods imported from Asia. No matter what or from where, if the Romans wanted something exotic, it was probably shipped into Rome.

    ROMAN TRADE

    As well as they designed their road network, travel on land was often difficult and dangerous for the Romans. Progress was slow compared to today’s standards and a person traveling on foot would be lucky to travel 35 miles a day. The more affluent Romans had more choices as to how they could travel. People who could afford to traveled in litters carried by six to eight men or several mules. Small groups of travelers, such as families, rode in raedae (carriages). People in a hurry, such as messengers from the emperor, rode in cisii, a light carriage like a chariot. However, travel for anybody by any mode of transportation was not safe, particularly at night. Roadside inns were strategically located in the countryside at about a days’ journey apart. The inns themselves were not safe. Fights broke out. Murders occurred. Whenever possible, a traveler stayed with a friend of the family or even a friend of a friends’ family.

    CONCLUSION

    The ancient Romans accomplished many feats. They had incredible technological advantages and made advancements that dwarfed those of other civilizations of their time or hundreds of years beyond. It is their advancements we often take for granted that make them one of the most prevalent and influential peoples on our society today—2000 years after their fall—in more ways than just language.
     
  21. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    For all the kudos we can (and SHOULD) throw to the old Roman Empire, they were also the instruments of their own destruction. By that, I mean when the administrators and rulers just became decadent.

    And, so, the evidence we can STILL see of the Romans' grandeur include the aqueducts that brought water to Rome, the ROADS that carried everything necessary for sustenance and security, and, of course, buildings such as the Coliseum. That was nearly two thosaund years ago. And, yet, the Roman Empire influenced modern people in the United States to upgrade their transportation system when it was mainly dirt roads.

    Pretty powerful for a "dead" society, eh? (And without the road improvements of the early 20th Century, WE may have LOST World War II !!!)
     
  22. leaded
    Joined: Nov 17, 2005
    Posts: 326

    leaded
    Member
    from Norway

    After a lot of investigation, a member of The Norwegian Country Motorhistoric Organisation, could reply that the Sonja Henie 810 Cord roadster is now restored to near perfect condition, and in his private ownership,still in Norway.
     
  23. Just a WAG since the building is on Sterling Ave.

    Sterling Elkhart Motor Car Co. Elkhart 1909-11


    [​IMG]


    1909 Sterling
    Elkhart Carriage and Motor Car Co. Elkhart, IN
    1909-1911
     
  24. [​IMG]

    1909 Sterling Model K Baby Tonneau

    Formerly the Property of Mr. Frank Gotch and the Only Known Sterling Model K Remaining
    30hp four-cylinder with 4.25 bore and 4.25 stroke, three-speed sliding gear selective manual transmission, front semi-elliptic leaf springs with rear full elliptic leaf spings and internal and external expanding rear-wheel brakes. Wheelbase: 115"

    The first Sterling was assembled in the Elkhart, Indiana whip factory of Willard W. Sterling and F.O. Hudson. The company offered two models in the medium price range. Marketed under the slogan, &#8220;Sterling Cars are a Sterling Value&#8221; the ads caught the attention of many, but not enough to ensure the long term survival of Sterling. After only two years, production of the
    Sterling was halted. This wonderful car passed into the pages of automotive history, although well remembered by Elkhart, Indiana resident S. Ray Miller.

    This 1909 Sterling Model K Baby Tonneau last changed hands when it was purchased from the Cars of Yesteryear Museum in 1985, and is widely recognized as the only one of its kind in existence. This Model K was last shown at Meadowbrook in 1985 and has been lovingly cared for since. The recipient of the coveted AACA Preservation Award, it is also a Senior Award winner. Finished in gleaming white with maroon accent striping, its headlamps, coach lamps, step plates, horn, taillight, and engine crank are all finished in the appropriate brass. The Sterling is beautifully finished all the way down to the upholstery tacks which are also finished in brass. The Sterling&#8217;s restoration was executed by the award winning firm of LaVine Restorations immediately after S. Ray Miller purchased the car and it remains in stunning condition today, appearing freshly restored and still in award worthy condition. Though the Model K has not been driven in some time the Sterling will need a thorough checking and examination prior to any touring or extensive driving.

    Selling for an approximately $1,550 when new, the Sterling Model K was fitted with an inline four-cylinder powerplant built by the Model Gas Company of Peru, Indiana that developed a healthy 30 horsepower. Records indicate that this particular Sterling Model K is the only existing Elkhart built model known and while several other early motor cars carried the Sterling name, they are unrelated to the Model K built in Elkhart, Indiana.

    Perhaps as equally impressive as this Sterling itself is the celebrity who owned and drove it for the first 15 years of this Sterling&#8217;s existance. Although the name Frank Gotch may be lost to history in the minds of many, there was a time when his name was known far and wide as the heavyweight-wrestling champion of the world. For a full 15 years, Gotch ruled the mat, pinning opponent after opponent. Born on a farm in Iowa, Gotch regularly attributed his brute strength to his conditioning on the farm. By the time he retired, many women had named their children after him, farm equipment companies had used his name on their products, and the name Gotch stood for quality and durability. Perhaps it was only fitting that an athlete that made his mark as well as Gotch would drive a Sterling.

    The chance to own a motor car such as the Sterling Model K is rare indeed, and the chance to own a car with such a stellar history is even rarer. We encourage close examination of this beautifully restored Sterling as its overall condition is stunning and it would be a welcome entrant on Brass Era tours and events around the country. The 1909 Sterling was certainly among the finest of cars available at the time of its production and this lovely Model K Baby Tonneau proves it with distinction.
     
  25. Grant-

    Check to see if there is a kick up above the rear axle. I am posting pix to try to highlight the chassis detail.

    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The 1909 Sterling Model K[/FONT]


    [​IMG]

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    [​IMG]
     
  26. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    Maybe they really ARE chassis frames, just not FINISHED ones? Just a thought, 'cause I don't see a kickup in the pix shown.
     
  27. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    RE Roman highway quality, even after the empire fell, the roads remained mostly servicable for centuries. By contrast, look at how often our roads and highways have to be rebuild today. The way the the flat stones overlapped was as ingenius, for its time, as it was simple. (I might add that untold numbers of SLAVES toiled millions of hours to pull the road system off, too!)
     
  28. alsancle
    Joined: Nov 30, 2005
    Posts: 1,573

    alsancle
    Member

    Jim, in fairness to our roads, the tons/per mile on current roads is an order of magnitude beyond what the Roman roads saw. This heavy usage certainly helps them degrade faster. Of course asphalt cracks and then water gets in and then things really go to hell.
     
  29. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    AJ, as a former highway department employee, I appreciate your sticking up for our quality today. I couldn't agree more. And, of course, it's NOT an apples-to-apples comparison, either. There WAS nothing to compare the Roman roads to. Given the number and weight of vehicles, our highways today are the best in the world (unfortunately, we can't say the same for our bridges, though).

    I WAS, however, trying to make the point that the Roman stone roads -- no fired paving brick, no tar-mac, no reinforced concrete -- weathered very well under the constant traffic of that time. For what the Roman engineers designed them to do, they worked well, in the extreme.
     
  30. kurtis
    Joined: Mar 13, 2009
    Posts: 2,001

    kurtis
    Member
    from Australia

    And they still do, otherwise the Roman Catholic Church would be have to change the name of it's institution.
    It's also important to remember that Paris, London after the great fire, most major European cities and even your capital, Washington were all modeled after Rome. Although the conspiracy theorists will say Capitol Hill was designed by the Masons. All of the greatest architects made the Italian capital a place of inspiration and not just for roads.

    Motor racing my friend. This is what made the roads safer. If it wasn't for Gordon Bennett and the French Automobile Club in the early 1900s, the roads leading to and from all of the major towns would surely have taken another decade to construct. Also, many fatal accidents which occured in these early races due to the uneven ground helped speed things along.

    Thank poeple like W.K.Vanderbilt for making roads safer in America. If it wasn't for his influence and money, if one can separate the two, the roads as you said would still be fit for horse and cart. Long Island Motor Parkway which was Vanderbilt's little pet project was by far the safest road in the world.

    But let's not forget the facts about early transportation, whether you are from Paris, America or the Great Roman Empire. People hated these fast moving machines.
     

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