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History We ALL Love a DARE! PIX of TRULY Extinct Makes?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by jimi'shemi291, Sep 12, 2009.

  1. swi66
    Joined: Jun 8, 2009
    Posts: 18,834

    swi66
    Member

    <HR style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #e5e5e5; COLOR: #e5e5e5" SIZE=1> <!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoGNyWtGFnU

    fixed link............

    Storm?
    What storm?
    This was a storm.........
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-gRb_MuUgg
    Back during the Blizzard of 77, I made a lot of beer runs.
    worked at a garage, with a small restaurant attached, I was getting around in someone else's 65 International Scout, with no plates or insurance.

    Recent weather for me has been a passing inconvenience.
    Had to use the snowblower this past weekend, but no issues of serious consequence for me this year. Most of the bad weather has been South of Buffalo, and I am northeast of Buffalo.
     
  2. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

    American Bantam Hollywood Convertible Coupe.

    Made in 1940 there were only 134 Hollywoods made, and 60 of the very slightly less 'de luxe' CC's. All CC's were black like the one pictured. All Hollywoods should have a three main engine . It could be argued that this is the best civilian car Bantam ever made. With roll up windows and a really secure, substantial top it is genuinely an all weather open two seater. A drop head coupe the English would call it. The 800cc three main and Zenith carb make it just enough faster to almost be a usable car for suburban or rural roads. Designer Alex Tremulis, in driving it coast to coast said it handled better than his MG TC. Hmmm. Where the Roadster has a sort of raffish, college boy air to it the Hollywood is a more elegant ride, suitable for an adult to drive to the Country Club or the yacht basin. The interior starts out nicer, and, being protected more, stays nicer. Given the low numbers produced, the survival rate of this model is quite remarkable, possibly around 15% or more of restored or complete restorable cars. There are about 23 listed with club affiliation with only a handful in the genuine show category. Are there 30 left worldwide? The primary advantage to a Hollywood today is that it is for the time being quite under-priced. We know of a previous Roy Evans Trophy winning car, an older but still good restoration, for $17,500. This is unusual, and a solid correct car properly restored should bring as much as twice that figure. A solid running ten footer would be in the $22,500-25,000 category. However, it does not enjoy the universal appeal of the Roadster and likely will always trade for slightly less. The Hollywood can also boast of the design work of two of America's greatest car designers: Alexis de Sakhnoffsky, and Alex Tremulis. Tremulis, commissioned to do so by Roy Evans, converted a standard Bantam Coupe into the Hollywood in his Beverly Hills chop shop.

    BUYING ADVICE. This is an extremely rare, historically significant car that, done right, looks great, and because they are so rare, no one really knows about them and they are generally way under-priced. Despite rarity, for the restorer, for most things anyway, the parts are no more difficult to get than other Bantams. One difficulty in this regard is that the cranks, crankcases and blocks for three main engines are virtually unobtainable. Do not buy a car that doesn't have these on the theory that you will find them. You won't, and many of these cars have been re-powered which should cut your offer at least in half as it will be very difficult and expensive to bring back. However, the ABS welcomes such modified cars in its ranks and even has a modified trophy so, if you want a bargain participation car, a Hollywood with an Anglia engine in it might be just the ticket. Even if your three main is running, unless you are sure of its rebuild history, my advice would be to rebuild it from scratch and make sure the engine is line bored, a process we think may not have been done at the factory which makes the cranks so rare. Figure on a 3-5000 dollar bill if you have a core. Monroe hydraulic shocks can be a puzzle. wm spear 2009.
     

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  3. You're right about the Blizzard of '77.

    You're lucky about being northeast of Buffalo.
     
  4. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

    American Bantam Roadster

    1938, 39 and 40. If a person knows anything about civilian Bantams they most often think of the Roadster. It had one of the longest production runs and it is usually selected by anyone representing the marque in overall reviews. And why not? They are wonderful looking little cars which when analyzed are truly a design tour de force. Even so, of the 6000 some-odd civilian Bantams produced, only 971 of them were Roadsters. Club affiliated cars alone amount to 141 survivors, nearly 14% and it is possible that that many again lie outside. For a prewar car that is quite remarkable. We suspect many survived the WWII scrap heaps because they were easy on tires and gas. And, it would be sort of like drowning puppies wouldn't it? It seems like every large collection of cars has a little Bantam or Austin tucked away somewhere. The differences in the years were mostly trim details. My own preference is for the later 38's or, as shown, an early '39 which preceded the migration of the headlights to the outside of the fenders (outies) and still had some tasteful streamlining on the hood sides, although not as nice (or practical) as the earlier long, often stainless stripped louvers of the '38. Many like to emphasize the "LeBarron Sweep" and paint the inset a color. The body-tub was a carry-over from the Austin and when it was re-designed as a Bantam this feature was something of an embarrassment and "old-fashioned" so, stock cars came solid. However many customers then, as restorers today could not resist and specified it a different, usually contrasting color. My personal taste would be solid, or at least two very similar related colors and pin striping. A bold paint job may grab the attention of a passing observer, but, if you have to live with it, it may begin to cloy. The late '39's and 40's had the three main engine which is a help

    BUYERS ADVICE: You can expect to pay $22,500-30,000 for a good solid, un-modified number 2 or 3 car, although at auction not long ago we saw one go for twice that, which is what a concours car should run you, minimum. You can find them for 10 or 12, or even less, but, buyer beware: real deals are rare. Rusted out floors and doors, and that tail end area of the body tub where water always collects and conversions that cut up the fire wall are common areas of concern. A three main is a plus if it is recoverable...but..how do you know? Headlights have often been modified or replaced which will cost you a minimum of 1,000 dollars to get right. Instruments? Not easy to find, and expensive to restore. The advantage of buying a Roadster is that it is a sort of "made man"..there is a ready market for it because people are familiar with it. BTW, if it's a concern, these are REAL chick magnets. Drive into a Corvette or muscle car show or your local drive in with one of these and watch the girls eyes light up. Invite one for a ride, but pick one of the smaller one!
     

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  5. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

    American Bantam Station Wagon.

    Another "made man" on the collector circuit, there are only 21 Bantam Station Wagons known to exist out of the 317 that left the factory with their attractive little Mifflinberg (PA) bodies, and if you have a good one with an original body you are in the 45,000 to 55,000? range, getting right up there where a "recreation" might tempt someone.These are the smallest production woodies ever made, and as such have a sort of 'extra-Bantam' appeal like the BRC...a following outside the Marque. Here you see Jim Markell's '38 with the long hood louvers and the early version of the grille.

    The brown one is John Tuthill's 40 with less bars in the grille. Commercial vehicles, as Station Wagons were considered, continued with "innie" headlights for all production.

    BUYING ADVICE. Go for it. They are the most difficult restoration project of all Bantams, and when you are finished you can't see out of them unless you are under 5 feet tall, but, you will get your money out of it. There are two categories here. As you would suspect, several of the bodies have been completely re-fabricated, some more accurately than others. And then there are cars that carry the original wood work and even the original decals. The former tend to be flashier, restorations and the latter are more vanilla looking, as were the original cars. Suit yourself. You can't blame people for wanting to gussy up Bantams because they respond so well to treatment, having as they do wonderful "bones" and proportions. However, for the purist, we have to remember that these were originally economy cars intended for the bottom of the market, not little doll babies to dress up.
     

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  6. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

    American Bantam Riviera/Convertible Sedan.

    The Open 4 seater version of the Hollywood, also the work of Alex Tremulis. They were a late (1940) development and all had the three main engine. 130 were made, with 60 CS's. Riviera's have even a better survival rate than the Hollywood as we count 34 club active units. They differ from the Speedster in the same way the Hollywood differs from the Roadster, with a fixed windscreen, roll up windows, and a decent top. This one of John Lyfords has incorrect rear fender trim which should be the 4 diagonal bars like the Hollywood above. Riv's can look a bit misshapen and dowdy and are often inartfully restored with poor "art direction". As John has shown here, done right they can come up very nicely. They are also among the most practical of all Bantams. Were I going to go long distance touring, if I am taller than six feet, or if I have a couple of kids or dogs I want to take along, or was going to use it for local shopping and errands, the Riviera is the obvious choice. It is weather tight and has the desirable 3 main. What's not to like?

    BUYING ADVICE: A couple of years ago we had a very nicely turned out, fully restored Riviera in our classifieds for two issues and could get no takers at 17,000. A dealer finally bought it and spun it for 28,000. On the other hand, we recently saw an ad for a dowdy little duckling needing all kinds of expensive corrections being advertised for 40K. If you find a restoration candidate you've got to do a little math, because, despite the rarity and practicality, the model has yet to find mainstream demand. I say to hell with that. If you like the car, restore or refurbish it to whatever level you like and enjoy the car. I think as the tasteful restorations we know about begin to come on line this model will get considerably more play, so, if you can get in now at a decent price it's a good bet.
     

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  7. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

    American Bantam Speedster

    The Speedster, all years, is the original open 4 seater and is like the Roadster with side curtains and top bows. In some ways this might be the Civilian car most like the BRC which used the same cowl and windscreen and has nearly the same WB and seating. Take the rear fenders off and you will see the "sardine can" wheels incorporated into the body that the Army likes to flatter itself as having "invented". Only 323 Speedsters left Butler, and of those there are about 19 registered, making them among the rarest of existing Bantams (or any other American production car of the era).

    BUYING ADVICE: Well, you get everything a Roadster has, plus two seats. What you don't get is the up market recognition of a Roadster. Since they cost exactly the same to restore, you'll have to get out your calculator. We know of an excellent one that sold for 25K recently, but, they don't change hands very often, so, it's hard to pick a price range.
     

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  8. swi66
    Joined: Jun 8, 2009
    Posts: 18,834

    swi66
    Member

    This 1958 DeSoto Adventurer is one of 35 examples built by Chrysler with Electronic Fuel Injection (EFI). A total of 82 Adventurer convertibles were built in 1958, of which only five survive today. All of the EFI cars were recalled by Chrysler within one year, and the EFI units were replaced with conventional carburetion. Forty-four years later, the original EFI system was found in Pennsylvania, in the possession of the widow of J. Gerald Cassel, a Chrysler executive who had squirreled it away. The EFI system was refurbished and reinstalled, and the car is shown as it was delivered to William Dickson of Pittsburgh, PA in January of 1958. The car is fully equipped with almost every optional equipment and accessory available through the dealer at the time it was built.
    [​IMG]

    It is the only remaining 1958 DeSoto Adventurer with Fuel Injection. I was aware there were 1958 Chrysler products with fuel injection. I myself do recall seeing that EFI badge on a car. I think it was a white Plymouth Fury in the showroom at the Chrysler Headquarters on Oakland Avenue in Highland Park, during the annual employee open house and pre-announcement new car show. I think I recall it in the 1958 Plymouth brochure too. My father was a Chrysler employee and I read avidly. The 1958 fuel injection system is a landmark product. It was an electronically controlled system. All the other contemporary fuel injection systems were mechanical. The design of that 1958 Chrysler electronic fuel injection is the basis of most of today's fuel injection systems. The 1958 system has all the elements of today's electronic fuel injection systems, including multi-point sequential injection. It was designed by Bendix. All the parts are branded Bendix Aviation. Not a success in the marketplace, the patents were sold to Bosch. Bosch applied it to the 1971 Volvo and VW Squareback. Bosch later got the system into most Japanese cars. It was brought back into Chrysler in 1984. Today there is only one other fuel injection system in widespread use. This DeSoto is the first automotive application of the system and is the only such vehicle still in existence. Chrysler retrofitted all 35 of the original cars with carburetors. Some were Chrysler 300s with hemi engines; only 5 were DeSotos; some were Dodge D-500s; and some were Plymouth Furys. The DeSoto has the 361 cubic inch "wedge" B-engine. Tom White who restored this one had carburetors on it until a few months ago. He was showing a picture of the car to someone at the Carlisle auto swap meet. Someone else tapped him on the shoulder saying he could lead him to the fuel injection parts. All the parts of one of the 35 vehicle sets were taken home by the Chrysler field engineer. He died in 1991. His wife and son were looking for a buyer. After much negotiation of a large sum of money Tom White had the parts for his car. He bench tested the fuel injection. Being an electrical engineer, Tom reverse engineered it, found the faults, and got it to work. At first on the car it was much too lean, but one week before this show he found which calibration was off and today it ran perfectly. His son told me most of this. Tom White told me that the only real fault was the wax sealed paper capacitors were not reliable. All he did was replace them with modern ones. If Bendix had used higher reliability plastic molded capacitors, which were available in 1958, the system would have been a success in 1958. His son is the body expert. He restored the car to better than perfect condition. It is a little over-restored. The paint is a subtle gold, not the brash gold of 1958. It is urethane clear coat, not Chrysler's shiny enamel. The paint on the valve covers and air cleaners is clearcoat. He says he does this as a showman, because he is in the car show business not authenticity. It looked wonderful. His son dropped the numbers of $250,000 $275,000 $300,000 as his idea of the car's value. A bit out of my price range for the Woodward Cruise. The Concours judges appeared taken back by the 45 year old fuel injection car. On the awards stand the announcer asked Tom White who got the fuel injection to run. He modestly said he did. Tom had the Hi-Way Hi-Fi record player playing on the award platform! The announcer mentioned it too. Tom's son told me his father always got the radios to work in their restored cars.
     
  9. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

    American Bantam Coupe.

    This beautifully restored '38 Bantam Coupe of Ron and Jill Sarver currently holds the Sakhnoffsy Cup, arguably the highest honor that can be bestowed on a Bantam. On top of that, although Coupes were the most numerous model produced, they are quite rare today. We have but 77 in the rolls.. Hot rodders have taken their share, but, a lot of them have been sacrificed as parts cars for perceived "higher value" Bantams too. Squint and you can see the American Austin Body tub sitting there. The Coupe perhaps did not benefit as much as other models from the Sakhnoffsky rehash in 1936, and people who want a Coupe may find the upright little Austin has more character. Of course these cars were not designed for the show circuit, they were designed for actual, practical and often hard use at a low price. The Coupe is really more what Bantam was all about, or at least what it thought it was all about. Again, the value of a Coupe is dependent almost entirely on the quality and art direction of the restoration. A really well done one can bring as much as even a slightly off key Roadster. As here, to my taste, they look best in dark colors. With black walls they could look almost Amish!

    BUYING ADVICE: The later ones had a three main, but, in this car, a 2 main seems just fine, and very appropriate. Moreover, the difference is hardly dramatic, but the pain in the butt and expense of rebuilds is. Break your crank and you are out of business in a three main.
     

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  10. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

    American Bantam Pickup Trucks.

    Truck people, like wood people and military vehicle people form a sort of larger group in the pantheon of car hobbyists, and so any pre-war pickup is going to draw attention in that circle, and when it happens to be a little tiny beauty like the Bantam everyone goes ga-ga. You might get an older restoration 20 footer for 15K but you would spend that much again at least making it into a show piece like this one of Mark Beckers , so, if you are buying one already restored you are going to be looking at 35 or 40K. There are some real alligators out there..in all of these models...It's a question of how much you want to do not how much you are going to pay getting there. You have to look at any candidate and see what you have and what you don't have. Put a price on each thing you don't have and make a realistic estimate of how much it will take to get it and you will know how much to pay for the candidate. If your list comes to over 30K, you probably don't want to buy it. 580 PU's were produced, and they came in two versions, the "square back", much like an Austin, and this one the "round back" where the corners of the bed have a radius. We count about 30 of them on the rosters.

    BUYING ADVICE. Hard to say whether the truck thing is a blue collar bandwagon thing, like Harleys, or a lasting category, but I would have to think the latter and give the PU "made man" status". If there are under 50 of them nation wide, somebody is gonna want it. If you have a business, this is a great vehicle to use to publicize it because they are real crowd pleasers. Since it is commercial, you are likely not going to make it on the concours circuit. The seating position is upright and not adjustable, so, don't think of touring it. Visibility isn't great either. You are not going to be able to haul very big loads..maybe a bale of hay or something. Author used it to carry visitors bags up to the house at the ranch.
     

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  11. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

    American Bantam Panel.

    Everything you can say about the PU, plus some in my book. One of the prettiest little commercial vehicles of the era. A lot of bang for the buck here. Bantam made 1,110 of them which means they had some appeal at the time too, but we are only counting about 18 of them that we know about.

    BUYING ADVICE. Go for it.

    I actually owned pieces of one of these once upon a time. Jim
     

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  12. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

    American Bantam Boulevard Delivery.

    Only a handful of the 70 of these that were produced remain, and some of those are "recreations" from Roadsters. This one recently changed hands for about 50K. It was owned since new by the late Sid LeSeuer.

    BUYING ADVICE: Duh!
     

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  13. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    Quote HJ: "She no work too good."

    Jimi: I always have utmost respect for people who've invested the time to become bilingual! LOL
     
  14. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    Hey, Jimmy, what's the background story (if any) on why the Bantams just didn't resonate with buyers? Couldn't the company make them affordably enough? I've always thought they were keen, if you were living in the '30s and just didn't need a ton of space and power.
     
  15. One Famous Bantam Panel Delivery Yep alot of them ended up like this one.

    <TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=3><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[​IMG]</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>HOLLISH 1959 DET NATS
    Finally, after a series of preliminary runs for Top Eliminator, the field was narrowed to a trio of entrants for the National Championship: Singer, Chrisman, and Jiggs Shamblin, who emerged from the A Competition Coupe ranks with his Hollish Brothers/Miscalculation Bantam-bodied, blown Olds entry out of Akron, Ohio.<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O:p></O:p>
    <O:p></O:p>
    Darkness forced a Monday completion, and Singer paired off against Chrisman and took the victory, 9.77, 149.00 to Chrisman's close 9.86, 149.50, for the right to face Shamblin for the National Championship. After starter Leo Errara threw the flag, the title went to Singer's 480-cid GMC-supercharged machine in a walk with a 9.76, 152.00-mph run when Shamblin's mount shattered the clutch. With the win, Singer became the Nationals' first supercharged winner.
    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2010
  16. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

    [FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Small cars such as American Bantam never made it big in prewar America, but that didn't stop people from pushing them. Among the more energetic proponents was Roy S. Evans, who took over the moribund American Austin Car Company in 1935 with hopes of succeeding where Sir Herbert Austin had failed.

    [/FONT]<table align="center" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td><center>[​IMG]
    The 1938 American Bantam Panel Delivery car was one of only about 2,000
    cars produced by American Bantam for that model year.


    </center></td></tr></tbody></table>[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]* [/FONT][FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif] Evans' hopes were tempered by the Depression, which still seemed endless, and Austin's formidable debts: $75,000 in back taxes and interest, plus a $150,000 property mortgage to the Pullman Standard Company. But the federal court overseeing American Austin's bankruptcy felt Evans might salvage things, and gave him the place for only $5000 cash -- a mere 1/2000th of its appraised value. Evans secured a $250,000 loan from the Reconstruction Finance Corpora*tion, then hired the necessary talent to help him create a new car called American Bantam.

    Like American Austin, the Bantam was styled by the artistic Alexis de Sakhnoffsky, who conjured a new front with a smooth hood and rounded grille, plus reworked fenders and rear deck. His bill was only $300, and Evans was able to retool the entire line for a mere $7,000.

    Indy race-car builder Harry Miller was hired to improve mechanicals, but lack of funds confined him to a redesigned manifold. Butler's own engineers replaced the Austin's expensive roller bearings with cheap babbitt bearings, and added full-pressure lubrication, a new three-speed transmission, Hotchkiss final drive, and Ross cam-and-lever steering. They also devised a heavier frame. Engine size was unchanged, but three main bearings were used instead of two after 1939. Wheel dia*meter shrank from 18 to 16 inches for 1937 and to 15 inches for 1938.

    The debut 1936 Bantam line comprised a roadster and five coupes in the $295-$385 range. Two roadsters and three coupes were listed for '37 at somewhat higher prices ($385-$492). Several new models arrived for 1938, including a Speedster with pretty "Duesenberg sweep" side panels, and the novel Boulevard Delivery with a rear half-roof. For 1939 came a smart Riviera convertible, designed by the young Alex Tremulis, who later recalled that it could cruise at 75-80 mph and average 42.5 mpg -- a rather questionable claim.

    Bantam production continued into 1941, but not even the dynamic Evans could convince Americans of the value in his tiny package. Output was about 2000 units in 1938, just 1229 the following year, under 1000 in 1940-41, then none.

    The firm found temporary salvation by winning a contract to design what became the World War II Army Jeep. Bantam built the first prototype, but the army was concerned about its ability to produce Jeeps in the quantities needed. Ford and Willys were supplied with Bantam's blueprints and asked to submit their own versions. Bantam received contracts for only 2,643 units, while Ford and Willys built more than 600,000 during the war. Bantam did get a contract to build two-wheel Jeeptrailers. The company produced utility trailers until 1956.
    [/FONT]
     
  17. Are you counting this one? :D


    [​IMG]
     
  18. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    [​IMG]

    SWI, you wouldn't happen to have any more PIX of this car, would you?

    The misfire of the Bendix FI system (which wasn't cheap, BTW) couldn't have come at a worse time for all Chrysler makes (especially DeSoto). Exner's finned wonders wound up being rushed through production for '57, resulting in various quality control issues, in particular, window leaks and early rust-out (the latter because MoPar had gone to lesser-gague steel for '57 to keep these winged vehicles LIGHT as possible).

    So, lots of buyers flocked to buy '57s for the style and power BUT were permanently turned off by problems -- something loyal MoPar customers were not accustomed to! Then, with a recession on for '58, all five MoPar brands needed quality to be on a perfectly even keel for the '58 season. Though fuel-injection wasn't sold on many units, the episode was another bad-publicity headache (in DeSoto's case, a nail in the coffin!) they could have done without.
     
  19. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

    This looks like Stuart Littles car. LOL The Bantam truck is cool!
     

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  20. Foul
    Joined: Mar 25, 2002
    Posts: 643

    Foul
    Member

    If you can get your hands on a copy of Hemmings Classic Car #1, we had a full six-page article on that car.

    dan


     
  21. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    The story of the Parry and New Parry autos of Indianapolis from 1910 to 1912 seems, in many ways, very typical of the misadventures of early would-be car producers.

    David M. Parry (1852-1915), along with his two brothers, operated a successful carriage-building business, but David dreamed of turning out motor cars. [It should be noted that Parry's two brothers later built the Comet cyclecar.] His siblings were content doing what they were familiar with, so David worked with them for some two decades, until he felt he had enough money to go into the auto business, gaining control of the then-moribund Overland company in 1906. But Parry lost everything, including his home, in the recession of 1907, and in 1908 he had to sell Overland to John North Willys who, at least, was in a position to get that company on its feet again.

    Undaunted, Parry established the Parry Auto Co. in 1909, and tried to play it financially safe by building only two models to keep production costs and sale prices low. Though David Parry can and should be respected for his determination, he, like many early auto entrepreneurs, suffered from over-optimism. By 1911, he'd re-launched the company and renamed his car the New Parry.

    All to no avail. By year's end, creditors took control and set out to transition from the New Parry to a new car of their own, the Pathfinder.

    I'll cover the Pathfinder separately, though -- yet again -- here's ANOTHER case wherein several closely related car "makes" count, on various lists, as INDIVIDUAL makes, thus making it appear that each one was a going concern. I have a real problem with oft-repeated statements that we had
    two-, three- even 4,000 car makes in the U.S. over the years.

    [​IMG]
    This image of the 1911 Parry Model 37 is gratefully acknowledged to the WikiMedia Commons project which is supported by user donations. So please help, if you are able.
     
  22. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

    Jimi; You may want to reread page 42 of this thread if you haven't already.:)
     
  23. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    Page 42. Will do. Sorry, I didn't actually SEARCH Parry/NewParry/Pathfinder or Comet, either.
     
  24. I thought I would hoist this one up again.

    [​IMG]
    The image above you see is of 1925 <NOBR style="COLOR: darkgreen; FONT-SIZE: 100%; FONT-WEIGHT: normal" id=itxt_nobr_0_0>Bugatti[​IMG]</NOBR> Brescia Type 22 Roadster. It’s in this condition because it has been recovered form Lake Maggiore, Switzerland after 73 years. The car was dumped under 175 feet of water in 1936 by a frustrated Swiss official because the owner had abandoned it without paying taxes. The car has only 20 percent of its parts salvageable and will go for auction on 23rd January, 2010. Bugatti Brescia is expected to fetch somewhere between $100,000 and $130,000. More images and video after the jump.
    <!--more-->
    The car was first discovered partially buried in the Lake in 1967 by a local driver and was a center of attraction ever since. The idea to raise the Bugatti from the lake and auction it came when a member of driving club was beaten to death by the gang of youths. The money from the auction will go to a charity that works to address youth violence.
    [​IMG]
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq4CW-qMzxw&feature=player_embedded
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2010
  25. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
    Member

    Yeah, I goofed. BUT, to answer your question, that Pathfinder may reside in the San Diego Auto Museum (same park, Balboa Park, they built in 1934/35 for the exposition there).

    I was going to go into some detail about the Pathfinder, but I'd just like to say that the earlier ones used Continental fours and sixes, and the last ones used Weidley V-12s, the very same engines used in the second-gen Heine-Velox of the early '20s.

    I don't actually think it's a bad thing to revisit some makes, if there's a new shred of info. BTW, did you continue the list you mentioned? It could be of help, at least for me.
     
  26. SUNROOFCORD
    Joined: Oct 22, 2005
    Posts: 2,144

    SUNROOFCORD
    Member

    Wouldn't of been the first time a make has been revisited. I don't see it as a problem. There may always be new info found. Way behind on the list. Too many priorities at the moment. No promises but will see what I can do.

    You obviously had additional info on Pathfinder by what you posted.
     
  27. [​IMG]







    "See's Candy" Harley-Davidson - 1933

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  28. Remember those Divco milk delivery trucks a few pages back? Here's one at Bonneville last summer.



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    Last edited: Mar 3, 2010
  29. leaded
    Joined: Nov 17, 2005
    Posts: 326

    leaded
    Member
    from Norway

    here is a Bantam Roadster -37 who´s located on a private car museum near my hometown Molde,Norway. The car is now totally restored, and in great original condition, and owner is sometime using it for a spin. (sorry for the bad local car club newspaper pic..)[​IMG]
     
  30. swi66
    Joined: Jun 8, 2009
    Posts: 18,834

    swi66
    Member

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    Tom White's 1958 DeSoto Adventurer F.I. Convertible

    One man who knows a lot about the Bendix system is Tom White of Hopkinton, Massachusetts, who owns a 1958 Adventurer, one of only 82 convertibles built that year. Today, only five 1958 Adventurer convertibles are known to exist; White owns two, there are two in Sweden, and the fifth is in Wisconsin. But White's car is a little different, and just a tad more valuable. Chrysler Historical Records show White's gold Adventurer to be the only DeSoto built with and retaining fuel injection remaining. Gee, I wonder if it has a car alarm?


    The history of this perfectly restored car, showing 66,671 actual miles, is as interesting as the car itself. Built December 6, 1957, it was a styling exercise and the first convertible built, said White, who has the Chrysler build sheets. Sold new at Liberty Dormont Motors in Pittsburgh to William Dickson, the car was issued a Pennsylvania title January 21, 1958. White has that same title tucked away in a pile of documentation. Dickson traded it for a recreational vehicle at Huffy's RV Sales in Harrisburg in 1975. The RV dealer put it in a barn, where mice proceeded to have it for dinner. Mouse urine is very caustic and can eat right through sheet metal.

    White purchased the car in June 1998 and towed it home. He had stumbled onto what he believed was a fuel-injected De Soto, because attached with speed nuts on the front fenders, albeit they were broken and some pieces missing, were gold and silver "fuel-injection" emblems. Knowing that he probably had the car that had eluded collectors for years, he began searching for the fuel-injection unit he needed to properly restore the car.


    While at Hershey's AACA October 2002 swap meet, White was showing a photo of the car to a friend and a felt a tap on his shoulder. It was Paul Gabauer, who had overheard the conversation and said he could lead White to the original system. It was in nearby Harrisburg. Gabauer told White he could put him in touch with the son of the man who had stored it since it was taken off a car in 1958. White could not believe what he was hearing and contacted the man. The man was the son of the late J. Gerald Cassel, a Chrysler field representative in 1958, who had removed a complete fuel-injection system, possibly the one from White's car, 44 years earlier. He put the system in his attic and told his wife to never get rid of it. His son realized how valuable that box of stuff was and White braced himself to pay the price. He would not divulge what he paid, but after several negotiations, it took a "five-figure sum" to acquire the Electrojector unit, even though the primary distributor which fires the ignition was missing.


    The striking De Soto retains its original radiator. The trunk mat is NOS, the only known example, as is the gold speckled carpet, found in Texas. All the original parts are still with the car, like the top well, which somehow survived the rodents in Harrisburg. The dash was repainted and re-padded. Everything on the car, including both clocks, the dashboard clock and the Benrus watch inside the steering wheel's center, work. No detail on this car was overlooked. The fit and finish of every component is Pebble Beach quality. Even the door and trunk jambs glisten on this car that cost Dickson more than $6,000 in 1958. Base price of a 1958 Adventurer convertible was $4,369, the most expensive DeSoto in history.

    The car was rust-free and no panels needed replacement, so the car was bolted to a rotisserie and media blasting was used to clean the undercarriage. Little scraping was needed because the car was built without undercoating. There was some sound deadener inside the car on the floors, but it was left intact. The front suspension and frame were also media blasted, repainted with urethane enamel, and clear coated. Take notice, concours judges! I always thought paint had to be the original type. All removable panels, such as hood, trunk, doors and fenders were stripped to bare metal, smoothed out, then covered with six to eight coats of Ditzler PPG primer. PPG Adventurer Gold was applied in four color base coats, wet sanding between each coat. Both inside and out of the hood, trunk lid and doors were painted as well. Three coats of urethane clear were applied, again sanding between each coat with 1,000-grit paper and finishing with 1,500 grit paper.


    The original engine was taken apart, but did not need complete rebuilding. White did a valve job and installed new bearings. The original camshaft was retained. The engine and all accessories were done with a base coat / clear coat finish. The gold paint needed to paint the dual air cleaners took their local paint supplier about a week to match correctly. Even the air cleaner lids were wet sanded and hand polished.

    The cardboard box of fuel-injection parts was next. To a mechanic in 1958, this system was nearly impossible to fix. It took White six weeks to figure it out. He determined the failure was in the electronic modulator. Once the system was operating, it was upgraded with new polyester capacitors and modern transistors replacing the original wax-paper dipped components.

    Being an electrical engineer made the task easier for White. He reverse engineered the unit, found the faults, and got the electrical portion to work. Before he could determine whether the system would pump fuel, he had to machine some parts on his lathe. Using factory photos to replace the missing primary distributor, White shortened a stock distributor from a Chrysler 413 engine and re-worked the keyway. The keyway shaft into the distributor was round with a tab sticking out, and had to be enlarged and re-machined. He also had to fabricate a coupler and attach it to the secondary or "trigger" distributor, which controls fuel flow. He then bench tested the unit with air pressure and a power drill hooked up to turn the distributor, creating a driving environment without fuel. With everything working, the system was completely detailed then placed atop the original engine. White also received invaluable help from a Bosch employee and 300 Club VP, Jim Bartuska.


    White's Adventurer convertible was built with the 361-cu.in. V-8, power steering, power brakes, power windows, power seat, triad horns, bumper guards, remote driver mirror and matching passenger mirror, dual antennas, clock, steering wheel watch, Prismatic rear view mirror, Sure Grip differential, and Highway Hi-Fi Record Player. The NOS fuel injection emblems, the only ones known to exist, were "liberated" from a Chrysler building by an employee and found by White. He also has all factory manuals, fuel-injection schematics and service bulletins, about 200 pages in all, related to the car.

    Patents, etc.
    The trademark "Electrojector" was twice registered with the US PTO. The first filing was 4 January 1957, registered 27 August 1957.
    It was registered by Bendix Aviation Corporation in Detroit as "Goods & Services: Fuel injection systems for internal combustion engines. First use was 16 NOV 1956. Last listed owner is Facet Enterprises, Inc. in Tulsa, Oklahoma which is a spin off of a Bendix / Fram conglomerate, now known as Purolator.
    It is owned by Pennzoil. See Purolator's website
    for a more detailed version of how they ended up with the rights to the Electrojector. Bendix bought Fram and got sued for it, so they had to spin off a company for filter products.
    Bendix filed a secondary trademark description under the Electrojector name in February 1957, which now defines it as "Electronic parts of a fuel feeding system - namely modulators, distributor-breakers, amplifiers, and solenoid nozzles." First use is still 11/16/1956. This trademark was registered in October 1957 and also became property of Facet.
    Both trademarks were renewed once in 1977. Both are now expired and considered "dead" by the US PTO.
    They have registration numbers and serial numbers, but these are trademarks. The only way to search for a patent in the '50s online is by patent number or current US classification.

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