Hey I know a guy who used a couple of Craftsman universal joints and a 1\2" extension for steering couplers on his T-bucket. They ae standard chrome pieces, not even impact-grade. I keep telling him to spend $60 bucks on a Borgeson unit, but he really thinks its good enough. truly scary. Would I trust my life to a welded piece of cast? hell no. If its forged, its a different story all together.
I have been welding pitman arms for quite some time. Most of them have seen serious rock crawling duty or ******** desert race use, or both. Not one single one has failed. But, then again, I do have a degree in mechanical engineering form one of them fancy ivy covered schools, and I am a certified welder. Can YOU do it? Maybe. Don't tell somebody something can't be done or can't be done safely just because you can't do it. Have a qualified welder do it and you should be just fine. Life is a gamble, and we all lose in the end.
I've welded many of them... we used to "shorten" our steering on the stock cars by lengthening the pitman arm and idler arms and shortening the steering arms... no big deal. But if you don't think you're good enough to weld 'em have someone do it for you... plenty safe when done correctly.
I dunno when I worked at No limit I weleded a **** load of forged splined ends to his steering arms. Never had an issue. pre heated the piece layed in a nice fat weld and let it cool slowly
I agree, weld your own. On a rock crawler, stock car..fine. On the hi-way...sorry I disagree. Brag on your welding all you want, I'm not convinced it's safe. Not trying to be a hard ***, just have seen a lot of safe welds fail in my life. Lippy
Got empirical evidence of this being a failure issue, or are you just spreading F.U.D? Give me the address of a lab and I will submit 40 examples of my work for destructive testing. Let's let them decide, since the Mint 400 and Baja 1000, or the ***ulative 400,000+ road miles are not enough evidence. Save your fear for some real risk. Bathtubs kill thousands every year.
Obviously the weld was NOT safe if it failed, somewhat of an oxy***** there Funny I have also seen alot of certified NDT tested aircraft parts FAIL, **** HAPPENS,
Nobody is advocating shoddy work or learning to weld on a pitman arm but for all those that are petrified it can be and has been done safely for years and years by qualified experienced people with and without welding certifications.
If I had a nickel for every idiot who doesn't get that line, I'd give Bill Gates a run for his money. What amuses me as I read this thread is how guys say a race car is one thing, but don't do it on the street. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a race car abused and beat to hell and back at high speeds going in circles, sometimes banging into walls and other cars? If you can't break something doing that, it's sure as hell not going to just magically fall apart driving down the street. Unless of course it's some backyard Boyd's ****ty welding in the first place. Come on.
With the majority of aftermarket steering components coming from China or who knows where, I'd place a bit more faith in the properly welded vintage forged components. I've also welded pitman arms, used a z-cut for maximum overlap, and chamferred the joint well for maximum weld penetration. Still going strong to this day, 15 years later. I recently had to modify some steering arms to fit the dropped spindle/narrowed a-arm combination that the owner had for a tri five wagon. Here's where the interference was, the ball joint "cup" on the lower a-arm just doesn't allow the steering arm to fit. I figured about a 1/2 offset woould remedy the situation. I happened to have some 7/8" dia steel rod so the lathe was used to cut some 1" long pieces and put 7/16 holes in 'em. Some of the excess metal was removed from the steering arm to make way for welding and such...... ....then the steering arm was trimmed until the new "sleeves" were offset the 1/2", and did some healthy chamfering for maximum weld penetration. Then everything was cleaned up to get rid of any sharp edges, creases, etc., and installed for a test fit..... After completing both sides, they were sent out for NDT (magnafluxing) and given a clean bill of health.
We have welded and changed many a forged pitman arm with success every time, the only thing we keep in mind is Hydrogen embrittlement, if you chrome plate your arm and do not treat it before plating it you could run into problems then. The chrome traps the hydrogen in and has the tendency to make the metal brittle, either way if your chroming or not it wouldn't hurt to have the hydrogen removed. The hydrogen id removed with a high heat baking procedure for several hours and most chrome shops should be able to reccomend someone for this process.
Do you know the difference between casting & forging? Castings are brittle and tend to break with stress. No Engineer would have ever designed a cast automotive suspension part - they are forged. Why would you comment on a subject you obviously know nothing about? FORGINGS can be welded and be just as strong, if not stronger, than the original forging.
correct and having the ability to weld them properly is key. so if you don't know what the hell your doing, take it to someone who does.
Fyi on the casting of suspension parts.Lots of suspension parts on daily drivers including the high end models use low presure and and die cast parts.Sorry for the high jack i get tired of some people knowing every thing here.Burl.
NO he does't need to get over anything! He had a valid concern...and every right to express it. His only mistake (if thats the right thing to call it...) was to cover ALL Weldors/Fabricators with the same blanket. There ARE very capable people out there, certified or not, who would have no problem CORRECTLY welding on something like a Pitman arm. Then again...there ARE people out there who would "weld" a Pitman arm with a Propane "Hot tip" and a Brazing rod. But...we don't call those people Weldors!
The first mistake was ***uming it couldn't be done period! I like many others on here have welded many a arm together to make what works. I'd rather tig-weld on forged steel than anything else. Back in the day Ol' Henry used the best steel money could buy unlike the **** you get today!
Why don't you get the thing x-rayed afterwards if you aren't 110% sure?? That's what I'd do and I'm a certified welder. Or, (probably a safer option,) tack the thing together in the correct position, and get one custom made from a steering and suspension shop. May be a little expensive, but what price do you put on peace of mind or someones life??
what part of they can and have been welded by a professional and will safely last the life of the car. this isn't something thats new , it been done for a long time. not ragging on you but just because this is something your uncomfortable with doesn't mean it's not safe and won't work. your never too old to learn.
Forgings can be welded quite well. Lots different than a casting.Done it many times on front end parts for dirt race cars to get just what I wanted in geometry. Even took '55 Chev spindles and cut at top of vertical section above the actual horiz. section where wheel is mounted. Then cut another spindle at the bottom of the vertical area and then welded to the other spindle in order to make the spindle longer between ball joints so as to make camber go negative as the right front wheel is pushed up into the ch***is in a turn. Doubt you're gonna find a more stressed part than the right front spindle on an oval track! And I'm not and never have claimed to be a certified welder! Just used a Lincoln 225 buzz box and 6011 rods. Tore up lots of **** over the years, but never broke one of these welded spindles or pitman arms. Dave
Bottom line: if you know what you're doing, have the proper equipment and raw materials, you'll be fine. Knowing that something can be done and knowing how to do it are two entirely different things. I would never attempt to weld suspension or steering parts, because I don't have the experience or training to do so, but I wouldn't hesitate to use a proper done part from a professional shop.
i personally would use a vega or corvair box , but thats just me. don't believe i ever said anything about something else not working. the key word i did use was done by a PROFESSIONAL. that's all from me on this BYE.
Try getting one at your local auto parts store. If you haven't lost them at "27 roadster", then "using a 56 steering box" should finish them off. Come to think of it, back in the day, where did they buy these pitman arms when swapping out steering boxes? Surely someone has to have a **** pot of 'em sitting on a shelf somewhere. They had to be store bought, or no doubt we would have heard about all the front ends falling apart driving down the road.......
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