Advise them that their time has passed and that they need to stop stealing our oxygen. You could stick weld a frame, doesn't mean you should unless you can lay down dimes, if you can't, let a pro do it. If it looks like a mess, it is; if you see little craters, it has porosity. Don't follow bad advice because it is cheaper now, it always costs more in the end.
I couldn't help myself It's like the little bug in the Bugs life movie. "Don't look at the light" ....... "I can't help it, it's so beautiful " A welding joke too ??
Ok, time to pay it forward. Here is a like new welding book dated 1975, and yes, that may seem pretty out of date to many here but it's free just cover the stamp, PM me your address if you can use it. I'm sure Larry knows who the author is, he can lend some input as to its worth.
I suspect how it really is......is like this. I don't weld much in the summer as I drive and not much building, when I start back in my shop in the cold, I'm not proud of my welds, but after a little practice, up the quality comes, and I weld my ass off all winter turning out some acceptable to me stuff. That's what it is, practice, get on with it and try.
The big issue I see here is the effects of bad welds not only harm you the welder , but also someone that has nothing to do with our hobbie . I have been a welder for many years , if you have guestion as to if it is a good weld or not or if you are using the correct materials , for get it and pay a qualified person to do it correctly and safely , everyone will thank you . Just my 2 cents worth
I'm going to attemp a solid answer. This is based on the assumption that the intended use is understood, has been designed and engineered well, and the material thickness is adequate to do the job. In other words -If your building engine mounts from 18 ga material you'll be SOL The current standard of determining an adequate weld passing a destructive test. Most people new to the welding field have had a few solid months or more of supervised practice and instruction. Once the individual has the ability to repeat and perform consistently the confidence is there to take the test and the lab performs the destructive test. It's assumed the individual will be able to repeat the same quality of work on welds that will be able to sustain the designed use in the field. On some jobs, each weld is inspected. The inspection can be visaual or up to an X-Ray test the seeks out inclusions. Ok, now for the guy in his garage with a welding machine that he grabbed from across the dog food isle,,,, The practice time must be there. This guy can also do destructive tests on his own. If he's passing the properly performed destructive tests repeatedly in the garage, even though it's not a testing lab providing the documentation, he should be able to sleep at night knowing that what he's welded up will do what it needs to do. Now with all that being said. I've seen stuff that looks like it was done built by blind gorillas that will plant the rear bumpers and run 130 mph. Upon my inspection, scrutiny and application of my standards I wouldn't trust it at 10 mph, but it's been holding up to the abuse.
-Make sure you maintain proper torch angle in relation to the weld joint. Aim for where the two materials overlap. -Look up or reference proper welder settings (voltage and wire feed rate) -inspect the weld profile for weld defects. If you exhibit overlap, slow down, if you experience undercut, speed up. Etc (not to over simplify) -For peace of mind the weld size (throat) does not have to exceed the material thickness of the thinnest member being welded. Example: you're welding 0.049" wall tube to 3/4 bar stock. Your weld technically only has to be 0.049". That being said, good luck getting a weld that small with 0.045" wire lol. Check out these reference posters from Lincoln electric. Great reference for new and old welders alike https://marcomcentral.app.pti.com/p...nZU5vZGUFBjg0NjIyNGKvCbn7mv7UQ2IcEH+XCqN0raWK Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
I went to night school for welding. Had so much fun signed up 4 times 2 for mig and 2 for tig. This gives you all the tech and set up. Also the teacher gave on site state certifications when jobs called for that. We would weld the coupons cut them into bars on the track touch (that thing is cool) and bend them into a U 3 or 4 ways it's been a while. Everything I weld I'm confident in. The other thing I have is my brother in law welds every day so I have him to bounce ideas off of or make him weld it Some of his tig welding he does all my tig welding. And he can run crazy long mig runs. He welded high pressure steam pumps for years all stainless.
Should have mentioned it's a kit. Just needs to be welded in. Comes with boxing plates. Good points though. Sent from my XT1650 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
While we are on this subject. Here's an interesting read on mig gun movement while laying a bead. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/quik-welding-question.352479/
Funny. It shows on my phone ok. Let's try this. Quik Welding Question http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/index.php?threads/Quik-Welding-Question.352479/
Generic term, "...welding a cross member...", is fleeting in scope. Do you mean in the middle? At each end? Inside a channel or tube-in-tube? Hanging a bracket off of it? As to why I ask, well that should help ease the concern. If it's within channel you have that "holding it" in place before the welds. Tube-in-tube, same/same, and you also get the opportunity for some roestte welds to secure the work, also if within a channel. If brackets welded on to round or flat surfaces then you have bracing options to help secure the work. Sounds as if there's been some metalurgy knowledge in your past so don't over think yourself into a box of worry. I'm not saying any level of concern is folly, more the opposite. I had a friend nearly cost me a round of drag racing running around trying to verify the real pressure in my tires. 10lbs on MY GAUGE was the best, and I didn't give a shit what the "real" number was. Didn't have to, it worked so damn the rest. Does that make sense? I also get the sense this isn't your 1st rodeo. Is there something missing in the question? Did anything you ever did prior net a degree of failure? Out of something near 100 roll bars I've welded in not 1 was ever "tested in combat", but I saw 1 from a "garage builder that failed in multiple spots. That real "pretty" MIG weld on the 6X6 plate pulled off like epoxy on teflon. Why? Not only was the HAZ light but the mill scale (that blackish coating on new mild steel) wasn't even sanded let alone ground off to bright clean steel. The driver was lucky he wasn't harpooned with a roll bar. Enough chin music, show us some pics and give us more details. Or fuck it, get back at it and have some rewarding fun.
LOL - best answer that sums it all up Obviously I feel comfortable enough with my welds that if it wasn't a cross member I would be putting it right in. Examples like traction bars, patch fixing panels and cuts, extra supports what have you. This thread was meant to be a serious attempt at seeing what people thought regarding real world experience. Sort of like your quote on the pretty "MIG" weld. At the end of the day only reason I'm asking is want to make sure whatever I do is safe for both MY family and YOURS .... when this gets on the road. The majority of the thread turned into typical keyboard cowboy BS - but there are/were a few good points raised. Not much on 1st hand knowledge of failed welds in a critical situation due to X/Y/Z. Long and short ......... my current experience/feeling/research leads me to following; 1) Practice your welds with same thickness material, positioning (flat/overhead etc) and same prep as final weld. 2) Cross section and inspect with acid etching. Do some destructive testing to make yourself feel better (beating on it with a hammer will only tell you so much versus constant cycling of suspenion in true road application) 3) Record and inspect weld penetration via heat profile on rear, weld penetration at toes and throat of weld into the welded material. Once you determine enough penetration - record those settings on your setup (what wires speed, voltage, ROD type etc). 4) Practice until you feel your consistent. HAVE AT IT. You'll probably better than the majority of welds out there in terms of quality. In my scenario - there are reinforcement boxing plates as well as multiple touch points of welding - meaning around (haven't measured - guessing) there is probably 20 inches of WELD material on each side of the cross member to the frame/boxing plates. This was also designed by a professional fabricator who deals with suspension. All in all ......... that's the best I can get to trying to cut through the keyboard wonders and "theory" of why no-one but a 1G-6G certified pipe welder should ever touch or attempt a weld on any vehicle - ever.
if you'd factor it down to the lowest 100% fail safe blanket statement on qualification, you'll only get the 1G 6G statements. Some non welding parrots will say it, and some ticket holders will say it. That is a 100% correct fail safe answer. Can an 8th grader weld chassis parts together that won't fail, sure but not all 8th graders can. Can a hobbyist who's never welded professionally weld chassis parts that won't fail, absolutely but not every hobbyists can. Now can a 1G 6g ticket holder weld chassis parts that won't fail, yes any and all of them can. It's all relative and there's equal amounts of bullshit and great info. Some places just have a higher concentration of bullshit.
FAKKY from what I'm seeing I tell you to go ahead, weld it up and sleep well over it. At least you do have in your head what needs to be accomplished and have taken the necessary steps to know what it takes and develop the skill needed. I'm in the business and I'm always amazed at the number of cars including race cars come in built with substandard welding, not only home brew but even out of some "professional" shops yet you rarely hear of a catastrophic failure. Sure, maybe a crack shows up but a total fail, once in a while sure but not as often as you would expect so there must be a certain degree of error you can get by with. Don't take that as I'm saying substandard welding is exceptable just because 99% of the time these guys get away with it, I just hope my family is not in the way of the 1% that didn't. I blame it on mig welders, ever since they came out with the low cost hobby machines that anyone can pull the trigger on and melt some wire everyone thinks they are a welder. I have a 40 Ford in here right now, I have to reweld everything this guy did. First appearance didn't look terrible but I knocked the motor mounts off with a 2 lb hammer, no penetration at all. Obviously the guy never questioned his own ability but he should have, at least you are.
Funny, this ^^ sums up what I feel about virtually every "Im building a 283/327" thread on here..."well I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused"
...back to the welding question for a moment..... FAKKY, since there has been little discussion about your choice of welding rod I'll suggest that for any out of position welds you should not be using 6013, 7014, 7024 and several others. 6011 penetrates very well, but does not always look good. 7016 and 7018 are excellent low-hydrogen rods but when used 'out of position' the operator best be experienced. Flat, no problem...vertical, big concerns... The other issue is that of weld prep. If your first pass looks like crap then grind it back and do it again. If the weld is in a position that grinding it down is problematic then do a lot of practice welds in a similar setup. There is no substitute for experience. .
This is one of the books that I first picked up after I bought my welder. Quite informative for the car guys without being the typical "dry read" that the vocational training textbooks are so known for. It has a lot of project type photos too. Far from a new publication but I'm sure they have updated versions. No, you can't have mine.
The Jalopy Journal
