Last Thursday I posted a thread ***led "looking for eyes in Montrose CO. So this is the up to date information. This all started from the 'Why do we do these things to ourselves?' thread. There I was posting about looking at a 53 Chrysler station wagon that I ended up p***ing on. Find that post to catch up with that. At the end of that thread, I pretty much stated that the Chrysler was too big and had too many variables. What we were really looking for was a 49-53 Plymouth 2 door wagon, and if the Chrysler would have been a Plymouth 2 door, it would probably already be here. Then I got a pm from @RodStRace with a Craig's List listing of a 52 Plymouth 2 door wagon in Montrose CO. That would have been April 22nd. This is all his fault! Pictures from the listing The car was built on a 97 Dakota 2 wd ch***is, it has a Fuel injected 3.9 V6 with around 90K miles on it. It has a new power steering pump, a new power steering rack, a new water pump and all the brakes have been rebuilt. The tires were new 3 years ago, and only have around 3,000 miles on them. The gauges in the dash are modern, about 3 years old. The car was licensed, insured, and was being driven (up until a couple days ago). There is some rust in the rockers and behind the rear wheels, but it comes with new inner and outer rockers, and really nice rocker chrome spears. The car has the Dakota bucket seats with the fold down center arm rest and seat belts, and the original rear seat has been recovered with new material that matches the front seats. The car has the original electric windshield wipers (6 v positive ground) that can be converted to 12 v neg ground. There is currently no heater (I can fix that). The asking price was $5500, but it was also 1200 miles from here. My wife an I reviewed the ad several times and had a heavy conversation. We had pretty much decided to spend the money we were going to spend on the Chrysler (before the numbers got out of hand) on a vacation to SD. Then we had even considered adding a side trip from SD to Montrose CO (google said it was 600 miles and 8 more hours away, and would be a 1200 mile, and 21 hour trip home). When we consider things, we look into every possible angle. The thought (and ramifications) of driving our truck and a newly purchased vehicle 1200 miles (and 21 hours) home was not sitting well, even though the car we were considering was 'driven often,' it was still fairly uncomfortable. The next step was to contact the seller, Norm. Norm and myself had a very long conversation. I've been in business 30+ years, over that length of time, you grow a sense of who you feel you can trust, and who you can't. I felt very comfortable speaking with Norm. That would have been April 22rd. The next step would have been to find out how much it would cost to get the car to my place. My 1st contact was to @Bill's Auto Works, but he is booked for the season. At his suggestion, I made contact with @gearhead78. Richard responded to me on the 23rd and provided a cost number (pending a fuel price increase, which is understandable), with his first opening being at the end of June. The next step was to see if I could get someone here on the HAMB to look at the car for me. @rod1 contacted me on the 23rd and said he could look at the car over the weekend. We discussed what I wanted him to look at, and check. Rod and I had a nice conversation. I felt very comfortable with the understanding that I was going to get a very accurate vision of the car from Rod. Friday (the 24th) I called Norm back to check on if there would have been a problem with the car staying at his place until the end of June, there was not. I also provided phone numbers so Norm and Rod could connect and schedule a time to get together. During that conversation Norm told me he had a friend that bought and sold a lot of Jeep stuff, and he had a guy that did all of his pickups and deliveries. He provided me with that guy's contact info. I made contact with Bob. Bob has a 30' open trailer (this car is not a show car, an open trailer is OK with me). He just happens to have a partial load on his trailer going from CO to MI before May 16th! He actually stopped by Norm's and measured the 52 to be sure it would fit, should the deal go down! Norm told me that was the first time the two of them have ever met, but his friend uses the guy all the time, and he felt pretty comfortable with Bob hauling the car. Bob required a $350 down payment with the balance due upon delivery. With the short time frame between the purchase of the car and the pickup day, he told me it would be OK to send his down payment to Norm, and he would just pick it up along with the car. Rod made the trip to Norm's on Sat (25th) and took 40 pictures! The two of them had a nice conversation as well. I have a flip phone with a very small screen, so Sunday (26th) morning I downloaded the pictures onto my computer, then I sent a text to Rod to call me when he had time to talk. He called me in about 5 minutes. Between the pictures and our conversation, he provided much insight about the condition of the car. The car was pretty much in the condition I expected it was in, but its really nice to have a set of eyes looking at the real thing instead of at pictures of it. My wife and I reviewed all the pictures together and had the conversation. My wife decided we should buy a car. The cost of the Plymouth and shipping it home was less then what it would have cost to get the Chrysler wagon into the condition the Plymouth was already in. The next call on Sunday afternoon was to Norm. When we both thought we had until the end of June before the car got hauled, our original plan was for me to send Norm a down payment, and then final payment wire transfer before the car was picked up. As soon as the car was paid for, he would send me the ***le certified mail, along with a picture of that receipt. With the pick up date only about a week off, I was concerned about the mail being able to deliver the down payment for the car and the hauling before the car was being picked up. I made a decision that made my wife a bit nervous. On Monday, I would do a wire transfer to Norm. As soon as he got the notice from his bank the funds had transferred, he would mail the ***le to me certified mail, take pictures of the ***le signed over to me, and take a picture of the certified mail receipt and provide a tracking number. Upon agreement, that bank transfer included a cash down payment for Bob. Norm was going to call him and keep him updated. I sent a message to Gearhead 78 informing him I had someone that could deliver the car in early May and I would not be using his service at this time. I would keep him in mind for future transportation needs. He responded with his understanding concerning a quicker delivery date, and thanked me for giving him an opportunity. My bank has recently changed their forms, so the transfer took a bit longer then expected, but it got done Monday. Norm let me know that he had received the transfer later in the day and told me he would send the ***le out Tuesday morning and would email me the pictures. Tuesday was a long day, no pictures arrived. I sent Norm a text this morning, there was some sort of a problem on his end with the picture transfer, but the ***le was sent out yesterday. Those pictures arrived this morning. Norm told me he would let me know when Bob loaded up the car. I think the next two weeks are going to be pretty long..... Plans for the car? Put plates and insurance on it and drive it the rest of this summer! Then we will figure out what comes next.
Nice to see that another old MOPAR at least the hulk of a MOPAR got saved and turned into another roadworthy rig that will be a lot of fun this summer. It p***es my dads old test for vehicles, you can haul hay in it and you can sleep in it! ( Hot p***ionate *** is optional ) You wacky kids have fun and be safe out there on the roadways of America!
You wanted the Chrysler to build into something similar, but it would have been the cost of the Chrysler, the donor, fluids, belts & hoses, servicing the brakes and a set of tires to get to the price on the Plymouth! No labor! Guilty as charged! Glad it seems to be working out, fingers crossed all goes well. You might want Norm to take pics of the car on the trailer before it leaves, do***enting the truck, trailer, and the car as it leaves his care. All seems to be good to go, but if something happens, do***enting will save everybody. I hope there is still some vacation money so that both of you can enjoy this country and hopefully the car, too. Don't forget the sunscreen!
BTW, i know the beer barrel intakes on the V8s were prone to leaking on the bottom plate. They make a thicker, billet one. Seems this might be an issue on the V6 too. https://hughesengines.com/Index/products.php?search=7725&submit=Go&partid=26194 Otherwise, it should be bullet-proof especially since the wagon is probably 800 pounds lighter.
Looks like a fun car. You might want to contact your insurance company now. I would insure it before it moved off the seller's property. I know the hauler should have insurance as well. I tell the insurance company that it is in transit they have no problem covering it. You need to tell them or else they might find a way to not cover it. They generally ***ume the car is in your garage.
And now you’re just like a kid on Christmas eve, waiting for Santa! Trying to stay awake, but nodding off, sleep, sweet sleep, but no, must stay awake! And so it goes… Should be a fun car. Looks interesting
Thanks for the responses. The PO tracking number says the Certified envelope my ***le is in, will be here Sat before 9 pm. The window for the car pickup is suppose to be near the end of next week. We are not getting excited about this at all...
I understand what you are saying, but one very real issue concerning a smb right now is, I don't have an extra one in my possession. Its also getting much harder (and expensive) to find a sbm that one could just drop in and go with. I'm not buying the car with the intent of swapping out the 90K miles V6 while I own it. This 3.9 is a Magnum motor. I have a 48 Plymouth business coupe (also on a Dakota 2wd ch***is) that has an LA 3.9 backed with a 4 speed manual OD. That LA motor drags my coupe around pretty well (its actually pretty fun). The box stock Magnum has 30+ more HP then the LA 3.9, and the shipping weight on the wagon (3150 lbs) is only 200 more lbs then the shipping weight on the coupe (2950 lbs), and is probably 500+ lbs lighter then the donor Dakota the V6 came out of. The V6 will work out great for what we plan on doing with the wagon, which is just cruising around. The wagon, as purchased, checks off nearly every box on our wish list. The few things it misses are not difficult, nor expensive, to fix. I don't doubt there will be some things we will want to change as we get to know the car, but what a great starting point.
This is calling for 3273 pounds (regular cab), which I think is too light. I expected 3600 or so. https://www.cars.com/research/dodge-dakota-1997/specs/?msockid=3c3e168086376314034901cb87e56224 Even so, it should be fun.
Nice to see you got a wagon like you wanted. The V6 is probably a pretty nice setup. My ‘51 Savoy Suburban has been with me since 1984. Pictured when I bought it.
I include the magnum’s in the sbm label. Back in the late eighties early nineties I had both a new 89 Dakota 4x4 V6 short box and five years later a 95 1500 4x4 extended cab short box with a 5.9 magnum. The best the 3.9 could do was almost 16 mpg while the 1500 would get 20 mpg pulling the open car trailer with a car on it. Go figure
Yep, they really did improve with the top end design, going from TBI to a dedicated intake and PFI. It's been overshadowed by the modern Hemi but they were good engines for power and MPG. Just keep them lubed and cooled. I have heard the 360s (5.9L gas magnum) tended to crack heads. The later V6 Daks were not great tow vehicles, but to move around a lighter body should be well within it's ability. Also, I know that 97 was a ******* year for the full size V8s, first year for OBDII, but major changes in 98-on. Never offered a Mopar PCM upgrade for those. Not sure it's true for the Daks and/or v6. But at least it should be OBDII, so you don't have to go searching for an antique scan tool. Let's hope Gene doesn't have to dig into that, but if so it should be much better than a 96 and earlier.
Congratulations! I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with it when the summer is up! Enjoy getting to know it in the meantime
I have some real world, personal experience with old vehicles on a Dakota ch***is. My 48 Plymouth business coupe is on a 90 Dakota 2 wd ch***is with the 1990 LA version of the 3.9 backed with a 5 speed manual trans. The coupe has a limited slip 8 1/4,with a 3:55 gear rear end. That is an OBD1 throttle body system. That car is probably a couple hundred lbs lighter then the 52 wagon is. That car pulls 17 mpg regularly, around town, and around 21 mpg @ 70 mph, proven over 90,000 miles of my driving. The drive train in the coupe is nearing the 200K mark and has been pretty much trouble free. Several years ago, I owned a 93 Dakota 4x4 with the 3.9 (1st year with the magnum V6 but OBD 1). That truck was just a beater that lasted 3 years. It did everything I wanted, or needed it to do including a few well loaded swap meet loads to and from swap meets. My car trailer has been long gone since the early 2000 teens. Everything around here just hauls what I want load in it, or mostly just one or two old people that out for a long, or a short ride. My 49 Dodge pickup is mounted on a 1993 Dakota 4x4 ch***is using a 96 5.2 Magnum (318) backed by a 46re 4x4 trans and transfer case with 3:55 gears on both axles. Gas mileage on the truck is 10 mpg during the winter, or 13-14 in the warmer months in town, and 15 mpg winter, and 18-19 mpg highway in the warmer months. The amount of city driving can pull down that summer highway number. That is with roughly 38,000 miles of on road experience, June will mark the end of its 4th year of being on the road. The gentleman I have purchased the wagon from lives on the western slope of CO, the wagon was specifically built so he could help his buddy that was running a car at the Bonneville salt flats, which is roughly 400 miles from his home. He has driven the wagon roughly 3,000 miles over the last 3 years, including the Bonneville trip. I have seen many pictures of the underside of the car. I believe its going to serve us well with a few upgrades from me (heat/defrost that currently does not exist, make the existing 6 v + ground electric wipers function with the 12v - ground electrical system, and possibly installing the new rocker panels that came with the car). I have some experience buying, selling, and building older cars and trucks. This one is at a great starting point for me, but don't look for a lot of things to change with it. I was not looking for a major project, and I don't believe I have purchased a major project. I am enjoying the discussion though.
Guys, in my defense ,Hah ha. I have probably lost as much sleep over this as any one involved .When I saw Gene's call out for someone to look at the car in question, I had the best intentions .We were going to go to Moab to a car show that weekend, to get away from it all, so why not go to Montrose, and make sure the car is real, not a scam. Good Karma right? It's 45 miles to Montrose ,one way, some good Antique stores, and a Vo tech car show. Gene offered 100.00,thought ok gas money. Cool. Get up there .Norm's a great guy ,beautiful shop, we have personal ties to my old boss in Boulder .Great guy. The car looks just like all the photos Gene showed earlier. I have a 51 Plymouth chopped business coupe .Rusted in all the same places as this one. Just a Plymouth . A Suburban is not that easy to find. The car started right up, Norm drove us around the block, gauges worked ,didn't overheat. rattles 'and clanks ,moldings in the back. 5500.00 ? I told Gene, rather than paying me, Get an alliance membership from @Ryan . I hope everyone's happy.
Gene, your post shows that this should fit right in, and that you hopefully don't have to dive too deep. That was kind of the point in contrast to the Chrysler. I hope it lives up to all your expectations. It really has found the best new caretaker I can think of. rodl, sounds like a dream of a inspection. Honest car and seller, and a knowledgeable and realistic buyer. Sounds like you are well versed in the make and era too, which is great. I've had some real 'interesting' people when buying and selling. I've done the long distance set of eyes for others a time or two, and those went smoother than when in the primary buy/sell spots. Top notch on your part to p*** on the fee. Seems it was a nice day overall. I love the HAMB.
@RodStRace Maybe I should add that to the list of loooooonnnnngggggg range plans? The hand rubbed black paint would work SO well with my great body work...
The ***le for the 52 Plymouth has officially arrived at my house. Now we just have to wait for it to get here. If schedules work out, and nothing goes wrong, the car is supposed to be picked up towards the end of next week. I'll be patiently waiting (OK, maybe not patiently waiting) to see the pictures of its departure from Norm's place. Google says the trip from there to here is suppose to take 21 hours of driving time (non Interstate like Bob says he uses), but that doesn't count things like fuel or food stops, construction zones, or maybe a little sleep time. Realistically, I'll be looking for it to arrive the week of May 10-15. The time frame between the pickup and the delivery will probably not be a patient wait... Obviously we are hoping for an early in the week delivery. We were planning on departing on the 15th to head towards the WI Hot Rod 100 for the weekend.
Looking forward to your new project Gene! I think that 3.9L engine will do just fine! A proven platform that you already familiar with to a degree. I used to have a '04 Dakota. Bought it brand new. It had the 3.7L overhead cam "Mercedes" motor, rated at 200 odd HP but with just about zero torque! I towed my single axle race car trailer (3000lbs, fully loaded) all over the western US with it. Unlike the 4.2L inline 6 Jeep Cherokee I replaced with it, when crossing mountain p***es, it needed to be dropped down a gear or two. Crossing the "G****vine" from central to southern CA, it needed to be turning about 4000 rpm or better to maintain speed. The Jeep would pull it easily at much lower RPM. Once, when towing to Denver to a race there, we're on I-70 east going through Vail. I remember saying to wifey, "These rocky mountains ain't nuthin." I minute later, the road went vertical! I then got stuck behind a big rig in the second to right lane, as he had pulled out to p*** another rig. I had to slow to 15mph. When traffic cleared, I "attempted" to p***. In low gear, matted the throttle....but that was all she had. I had to settle in at 15mph for the duration of the climb. I think the earlier model 3.9L motor would have done much better! But at least the 3.7 "Mercedes" motor was reliable and got good fuel mileage for the most part. So I can't complain. I think that 3.9, if it is good shape, will last you a long long time. Maybe last longer than you!
Great little project. Always best when they can run and drive, then do some small improvements as time allows. In the meantime you can have fun and enjoy the new car. Also given your experience with the Dakota ch***is and the 3.9 V6 drivetrain, it's a perfect fit for you.
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