wetsand and buff, anybody here a "pro"?

Im really getting into buffing. I have done it for 20 years but never really well. My latest car is going inside at a big event so Im really stepping it up, and im very happy with the results. im just wondering what the pros do for a nice buff, you know grits to sanr in, compounds to use ect....

 

my first and last sand and polish session was sooo bad, i must repaint the hole car....maybe we have other paint here in europe they are not so good for polishing! never try it again.....

 

Much depends on how many clear coats are on the paint and how much orange peel is in the clear. I started with 1000 grit, then 2000, then finishe with 3000 . Then I used a buffer at 1400 RPM with a wool pad to cut then went to a foam pad to finish. My car took 60 hours to totally color sand and buff. The best way to start is to do one piece, like a fender, then door and so on till it's done.

 

i do the1500 2000 2500 sanding with a semi hard sanding block to keep the finish flat or it will become choppy [small waves] then i use a wool pad to start then change up to a foam polish pad. there are different foam pads also from rough buff to polish . i used to use meguiars compound now i use farecla brand [england] any good jobber should have it. its water based and you can spritz it as you go work great easy clean up.. look at spending many many hours for a show finish also use a good final glaze by hand been doing paint & body for 25 yrs hope this helps....john greazy hubcapz cc tenn.

 

There's lots of different methods, as well as products to confuse you here, Jim! I find that as you get closer to having a "perfect" finish, the less most people can see it as well, so sometimes you struggel to do things that will never be appreciated by 99% of your audience. So if you are doing this for yourself, it's a bit easier to gauge how nice, and how much work you will put into it. Doing it for someone else, can be much tougher to get it "right" in the customer's eyes.
Most of my paint jobs are great street quality, and won't be embarrased at a car show. IF I ( or the customer) want it better, it's more a matter of going one or 2 steps finer with the sanding, and really, more detailing around the edges, and inside (jams, trunk, engine compartment)
The other posters are pretty right...be sure you have enough clear, how much orange peel dictates what grit to start off with. Heavy peel can even get a light 600 grit cut. I usually start with 800 grit, as my paint almost always has a decent amount of peel. Then 1000, 15000, and if it's a dark color, 2000.
I use a squirt bottle if I'm in the shop, a hose if outside. Keep the surface flushed with water, as well as flushing the sandpaper quite often. It helps to soak the sandpaper in soapy water for a while before using it. I also add a few drops of car wash soap in the water in the squirt bottle.
Be very aware of any "dragging" or squeaking when sanding. It might mean a piece of dirt, or grit has gotten under the sandpaper. That will make scratches that are hard to remove.
I use a hard block, or paper wrapped around a wooden paint stick for the first cut or 2. Then by the time I'm upt to 1000 grit, I use a dual density soft pad...on the harder side. 1500 gets sanded with the softer side. The pad also makes a good sqeegee to check your work, and remove sanding residue. The top surfaces (hood, truck, roof) really need extra attention with flushing away the residue, so you don't just grind the stuff back into the paint. Flush and squeegee a LOT!
Other common sense things... stay away from sharp edges with sanding or do them by "finger" very carefully, same with buffing. Paint flows away from high rideges and edges, there's less paint there. Use pieces of hose for concave surfaces. Sand from front to back, just like doing filler work, and cross cut as well, to avoid flat spots or ridges. Quick wash between different grits.
Be sure by the time you're done with the first cut, there's no shiny spots left. That means the paint is cut flat. The next steps, you're just removing the sand scratches the previous steps have left. I find that you really need to do a lot of time with the 1000 grit, to get rid of the 800 scratches. The 1500 grit step goes a bit faster.
I find I really can't see how much to cut with 1000 grit, I go by experience. When you start the 1500 step, you'll actually start to see a bit of a shine coming back to the surface. The 2000 will make it a nice semi gloss.
I haven't used a wool pad in many years...though there's not bad...they just tend to cut pretty quickly, and I like to work more slowly. Personal preference.
They make different foam pads for compounding and polishing, even waxing. Use the right ones, don't cross contaminate them.
I like 3M Perfect it 2 compound, or Meguire's Diamond cut. If you sand all the way to 1500 or 2000, there's no reason to use a heavy cutting compound, use a fine cut.
Next step is a softer foam pad, with a liquid polsih..I like Meguire's # 2 or 3. This is where the paint really gets a nice finish.
Next, if you want it really nice is to do another polishing step..with a finer polish or 'swirl remover". meguire's # 9 is very nice.
After that, I hand polish with #9 or Race glaze. If you want to protect it with wax, I recommend doing 3-4 hand polishes...when the paint doesn't seem to be getting better, You can put wax on it. Use a PURE carnuba wax, with NO cleaners, or polishing agents in it...most likely, they are more abrasive than the liquid polishes you used! I like Meguire's...Zymol...P21S...and the "old" Cl***ic Car wax, but there are others that are very high quality, too.

 

Thanks for the tips, I have been doing it wrong for years

 

This is pretty much the same way we do it,the only thing different is,we run over it wet with a DA and a soft interface pad and 3m's trizac discs,they go as fine a 4000 grit makes buffing go alot faster.

 

I do like to finish with the 3000 trizac myself with the interface pad.

 

I'm no pro, but I have had good results with the Eastwood 'kit'... jugs of cut compound, swirl remover, and polish with the appropriate yellow/white/black foam pads for each. As long as you lay down plenty of good clear and wet sand up to 2500-3000 to smooth it down, this stuff works great.

 

Corn starch for the final buffing.

 

My question is, what do you use to get all the sanding and compound **** out of the body seams/fender well/cowl areas?

 

Holy **** guys,,,this all sounds like hard as hell work. I was thinking about doing my Ranchero myself, but sheeeeeet, I ain't got that much in me or the patience..... You guys sound committed...........

 

Now I know you are old school!
Bill Hines showed me that trick.
Make a pounce bag.

 

I was taught that corn starch used as a final polish was used because it took off all the residue oils and wax from the compounds that you used and left a cleaner surface..............

 

Out of what?
Seems the material the bag is made of could end up being the functioning abrasive here if not careful.
A guy once told me he usta varnish bowling lanes and knocked off the "nubs" with a potato sack.
I tried it.. Scratched the hell out of my varnish!

Thanks...

 

Now days I end up doing it by hand and wetsanding using various fine grits.
If you can do it like the others mention with the trizac system you're in for fun. Used it for a long time before and always had great results with it

 

While we're on the subject...I did just get a wet DA. I had pretty good luck with the first 800 cut, but after going over it with 1000 and 1500, I still had a lot of scratches. I did a 1000 cut by hand, and it seemed to do the trick. I thought I worked it with 1000 long enough, but obviously I didn't. How do you guys know how long to go with the 1000, with a wetsander.
I didn't know they also made a 3000 paper for it...wow, it really DOES work well?
How 'bout some tips on using a wet DA for color sanding?

I'm still learning, too!

 

Yeah, me too Makes buffing a little quicker

I like using a DA too. Most of my better stuff, I buzz dry with 800 on a hard pad (not recommended for novices) That gives me a flatter surface, and a flatter surface gives a clearer reflection. Follow with 1000 or 1200 on an interface pad WET, then 1500 WET, then Trizact WET. I fill my squirt bottle up LOTS of times!

Hey, what are you guys using for compound(besides chopolds & greazyjohn, thanks )?
I had REAL good luck with 3M extra cut III (5936) and a foam waffle pad, then they replaced it with 6060....and I had to go back to a wool pad---NOW they've come up with this miracle 3 step **** that won't rub corn kernels out of a turd

 

Don't forget the kerosene with that cornstarch, makes a good swurel remover, too!

A new tooth brush works well for me. Be gentle with that brushing.

A pounce pad, made from cheesecloth ,was "traditional", but I like cotton fabric, the kind found in new tee shirts. Don't use terry cloth on medium or dark colours or you'll have many more scratches to remove!

S****ey Devils C.C.
"Spending A Nation Into Generational Debt Is not An Act Of Comp***ion!"

 

I'll tack on my methods as well. They basically mirror Chopolds, cept I start with 800 by hand on a hard block wet to knock out any ****, then 1000 hard, then 1200 and 1500 on my Waterbug, then 2000 and 2500 by hand or a soft block. Keep the surface wet as mentioned.

I've been adding 3M finishing film paper to the cabinet as I can afford it, ($100ish/bx) next I'll get 2000 and 2500 as I like how it cuts and keeps things level. I do find that I like to take some of the inital bite out of the paper before I touch the surface with it. I've seen quite a few deep swirl scratches form it that really took some doing to get out.

I've been taking the buffing in 3 steps lately, since I was working on a black car. 3M 6060, which actually works alot better than the old Extra Cut Compound, on a wool pad for the buffer or a foam compound pad for my mini. It also smells really good. Then 6064 Swirl Mark remover on a foam polishing pad, then the 5956 for dark colors on the same (but different, I have 2) foam polishing pad.

I'm planning on doing a color sanding tech soon, I took step by step shots while doing NitroFC's Dodge. We'll see how good the tech turns out when I start writing it.

Painting's the easy part.

 

You got THAT right!

 

1. One thing I wouldn't do is wax a car (I mean wax not a finish glaze) for the first 90 days. Paint manufactures back this up. It traps the out g***ing reducers in the paint, which can out gas for 90 days. causing a duller surface then one that out g***ed properly.

2. Personal opinon here, Stick with one compound manufacture, less chance to F it up, just follow the steps, I prefer 3M but thats just me. Same goes with bonnets /foam pads.


EVERYTHING else is dead on.

 

I use 1500 Use a 3m block Usually buff the car 3 times to work out scratches. I m no expert on buffing. I just wanted to let you know ,On a mettallic job you have to be careful you dont break through the first coat. Sand as even as possible watching the pattern. I use super duty comound and finesse .

 

Amen

 

I used the wet DA setup. but I did I my first block sanding by hand. I block sand first with 1500 then use the 3000 on the DA after which I use the new 3M compounds. can`t remember the name but it has 3 stages of compounds.White then grey and then Blue. each color has its own pad for the buffer.I find this set up cuts your buffing time in half. I have use farecla for years and the new 3M setup with the wet DA and 3 compounds is alot faster and a hell of alot cleaner.Biggest problem is getting set up for this new setup. the kit with the DA and 3000 pads can run you $400 and the kit with the 3 compound can run up towards $250. It is costly but goes along way. one 3000 pad can do a whole car and then some and a bottle of compound goes twice as far as the older compounds.

 

I tell my customers 2 mos when its outside and more if its kept inside. Very good point and often overlooked.

 

Very interesting,first time I heard of this.I alway thought that paint need to breath for the first 90 day. I alway thought that is you trapped the g***es it will turn cloudy!! I found that if your top coat of paint dries faster then the paint under it the g***es that are trapped will cause it to cloud up.I seen this happen.

I find with today clears that if you water sand and buff the next day it is trouble, it will show problems in a few days because the paint is still not dry. fine scratchs come back into the clear from where you were water sanding.I have been running into this the last few years.Never had the problem 10 years ago.Must be all the changes in the clears.Ever few years they fade out one clear and introduce another.I try to let my paint dry for a week before I water sand and buff and I open up the paint and leave it over night so to let it breath.

 

Hand cut with 1000. Then 1000 Trizact on a Snap on non-orbital finishing sander. After 1000, then 1500 and 3000. 3m on a wool pad. 3M polish on a waffle pad.

Alwyas looks ***y afterwards.

 

that post is saying not to use a WAX..

PERSONALLY, I heavy cut the next day.. (800-1000G)
then wait 5 day then do all my finer stages, .... 4000g
then buff...all the way to final glaze. final glaze still allows the paint to breath and gives it the shine similar to wax.

 

Oh ****!!! Need to learn to read. thanks. I`m going back under my rock I craws out of under.lol