That is not the way to look at things, I'll bet there were more Fords in the Dusenberg factory parking lot than any other brand. Good cars that got craftsmen to work on time to build better cars at a cost 20-30 times the cost of a Ford.
I am curious as to what racing teams used it for years? and since you seem to be kicking out all this cool stuff, how about some notes on the Fiat-Pope's and maybe a couple pics of the Simplex "Zip"
WOW thanks for posting those great pictures. The duesys are works of art even with the bodies off of the frame. My all time favorite car manufacture. the brothers loved to race so they built cars and engines to support their habit. all were engineering marvels.
So I mentioned earlier that Dave promised me a ride in No. 25, so on the brilliantly beautiful Memorial Day that we had, I headed over to his shop to take him up on that offer. First up, Dave's shop is awesome. He's an antique dealer as well, and his two-wide, two-deep shop has antique signs and antique clocks all over the place. He currently has a 1914 Mercer in one spot, his own Locomobile speedster project in another spot, his lathes and other machinist's tools in another corner and the Duesenberg behind the Mercer. Dave moved the Mercer out of the way (it has a giant 309.3-cu.in. T-head four that thumps out a glorious exhaust note - more at http://www.hemmings.com/hcc/stories/2009/04/01/hmn_feature6.html) and we rolled the Duesenberg out into the daylight. The engine required a little priming. It has no choke, so Dave has developed a substitute that involves placing a rag over the carburetor throat. FYI, Dave did indeed have a new block cast to replace the original, and it wasn't nearly as easy as it sounds. After creating the rough patterns in mahogany, enough to fill a pickup bed, he had a test block cast, which he then sliced and diced to figure out the thin spots and other weaknesses. He then tweaked the patterns, cast and sliced another test block and tweaked the patterns again. After that, he had to figure out how to machine the block, again no easy task due to the odd layout of the valves and the head integrated with the block. Why go through all the trouble? Because he knows of only one or two other 16-valve (racing-spec) Duesenberg walking-beam fours in the world. A handful of eight-valve (passenger-car-spec) walking-beam fours exist, but despite the similar architecture, are completely different engines. Anyway, history lesson over. Before Dave starts the engine, we have to figure out if we both can fit in the cockpit at the same time. The mechanics of the day, as Dave said, were anorexic jockeys, so the mechanic's seat was far too narrow for my butt. We had to stuff a moving blanket into the seat to elevate my cheeks over the sides of the bucket, and even after that, I still felt more cramped than a babboon in a baby carriage. I also practiced getting in and out without touching that drainpipe of an exhaust; I'd rather not burn off the jewels when it came time to get out after our ride. After choking the carburetor and hand-pumping enough pressure over the fuel tank, Dave was able to start the engine on just a couple turns of the crank. Once we left Dave's dirt road for the paved road, he opened it up. The roar of that exhaust was not quite the thump of the Mercer's, but still enough to drown out the clatter of those long rocker arms. More immediate was the heat radiating from the pipe; I bet many an anorexic jockey singed their elbows on it. Dave has had some seat time racing No. 25, so I trusted his instincts. No. 25 was built for the straightaways of the board track, not for the curvy, tree-lined backroads that Dave bombs around, but Dave still threw it into corners like it was a road racer, and the car toed every line Dave laid out for it. No speedometer, but Dave estimated we got it up to 65 or 70 on some of the short straights. Given longer straights, which would have allowed the tall gearing to come into play, we would have seen triple-digit speeds. In something approaching a century of age. Dave said that after about 100 miles of driving it, one starts to feel beat up, and even after our short blast in it, I can see what he means. The cramped cockpit, the wind, the noise, the vibration, all take their tolls. It took not only balls, but also brawn and stamina and skill to race this car. But the exhilaration of speed, the wind straight in your face, the element of danger, the direct connection with the machine that our modern society no longer permits - a ride in No. 25 excels at delivering these like few other things in life can.
Great report Foul! Reminds me of my ride in the car through the back roads in Lime Rock. Makes you wonder what 500 miles at INDY was like back in the day. Hope this makes a Hemmings feature like the Mercer did earlier this year. Makes you wonder how many other truely great cars are sitting out there that need a new owner to get them out and running again?
bisket, the engine was originally developed by Fred for Mason if I remember correctly, later in Duesenberg when the bros. launched their own cars. Although basically "customer cars" several teams like the Meteor, Hoskins, Crawford, others I don't remember ran the walking beam. the Simplex Zip is an elusive beast, well documented in race results, I have no pics and little info I saw something on it here: http://winfield.50megs.com/4Jul1916west.htm I'm familiar with Fiat, and Pope but not Fiat-Pope? Now I'm curious...
Just found these photos of the 16 Valve that Dave rebuilt the engine on. Taken three years ago at the Fall Vintage Festival at Lime Rock Park here in Connecticut.
Eddie Miller, Duesenberg mechanic and later builder of the famed mid-engined Pontiac lakester, recounted the hand built aspects of these early Duesenbergs. A surprising number of parts were HAND FORGED, as in blacksmith technology. The rockers were built of flat stock, welded, annealed and hardened old school. Cranks, connecting rods were forged in house as well. I have fooled around with hammer and anvil, and can say without doubt how much skill that required. Awesome.
This is an oddball Duesy of sorts. In 1933 the 1 and half litre Duesy was removed and a 4 and quarter Clemons engine was installed on the orders of Count Carlo Felice Trossi, the then President of Scuderria Ferrari. Trossi then drove this car in the '33 Monza Grand Prix. In 1934 Whitney Straight bought the car and had some success at Brooklands and was trying to break the Class C record that was held by the John Cobb Railton at 140.93MPH. The Duesy Clemons recorded 138.15MPH. The car is currently undergoing restoration in England.
does anyone know if any of the 91 cu in supercharged 2 stroke duesenbergs survived?...there is one to make your heads spin.
Kurtis, Does that car have any INDY history? Always nice to see another old race car turn up, or at least one I never knew about.
Yes. By all reports this car does infact have a history at Indy. Fred Clemons,Miller,Derby Miller,Gwenda Stewart and Augie Duesenberg have put their hands on this car at some stage. It was Augie that built the car for Scuderia Ferrari and looking at other Indy Duesenbergs this car has a 1927 Indy chassis. There have been other Duesy's that made their way to England and fitted with a multitude of different engines and one that i have read about even had it's chassis cut and shortened. It's a shame especially now that Crosthwaite @ Gardiner are reproducing Duesenberg engines. Ah well,who was to know back then. Kurtis.
An excerpt of this car's history from this encyclopedic site: http://www.kolumbus.fi/leif.snellman/gp3314.htm Oil, sand, water, slick tires, the will-to-win and scared organizers: Many years back, Doug Nye (DCN) conducted long interviews with the renowned senior Alfa Romeo test engineer and driver Giovanni Battista Guidotti. His high qualifications were the reason why he was appointed as one of the experts to the court of inquiry, which investigated the triple disaster at Monza in 1933. According to DCN, Guidotti's recall was in almost every topic that he could check incisive, emphatic and crystal clear. The media had blamed Count Trossi's Duesenberg single-seater since it had "blown-up and dumped oil all over the track". This car of course used a redundant Duesenberg Indy chassis, fitted with a straight-8 4.4-litre unblown engine made by 'Skinny' Clemons. Guidotti confirmed to DCN absolutely adamantly that while Trossi had indeed retired the Duesenberg with a mechanical problem, the engine base chamber and piping survived totally intact, and that they found no evidence of substantial oil leakage at all. Guidotti was adamant that there was no major failure on the Duesenberg. The Scuderia Ferrari later sold this car to Whitney Straight it then passed on to Jack Duller and eventually to Jenks. Denis Jenkinson owned the Duesenberg of course for many years until his death in 1996, it's now in the Brooklands Museum, and the engine is being duplicated to restore the car to running order by Crosthwaite & Gardiner. DCN recalls, "We often pored over the original engine castings to deduce the truth of the Monza failure - and it was plain that (although cracked everywhichway) the crankcase had never been holed in a manner which would explain 'the Monza legend'. I was armed with this first-hand experience when I went to see Guidotti in 1987-ish and he explained the above. "The 'Duesenberg' was supplied without engine spares. We have always been 90 per cent sure that the crankcase and block castings today remain the originals supplied by Clemons to Trossi. I have personally handled the castings in question and there is no sign of a puncture failure in them of the kind which could have released oil onto the circuit. We always assumed therefore that a parted oil pipe or a split somewhere else in the system could have been responsible for dropping 'the oil' - if indeed the Duesenberg had been the culprit. This was distinctly possible. "What is indisputable is that all the cars contesting that race that day were endemic oil drippers, that the weather was grey, overcast and drizzly, and that light rain or drizzle had fallen. The combination of these factors - with perhaps the slick tires the major factor amongst them - with bitter competition and will-to-win exhibited by the leading drivers resulted in these terrible events. "Guidotti recalled it was a still day, without significant drying wind, it seems highly probable that sand was put down either upon oil accumulated from several cars - very possibly including the Duesenberg - or perhaps to absorb puddling water at the bottom of Monza's very gentle banking dish - because the majority of the cars (as is evident from photos of the start line-up) were on slick track tires. Overall, however, slick tires on a slick circuit and race started by organizers scared of the crowd's reaction if they delayed any longer really created the incident. "The truth, Guidotti said, was that the race was started to appease a vast and noisy crowd, who were becoming increasingly restless when the organizers dilly-dallied as drizzle had damped the course. Guidotti also confirmed that while it had been rash of the organizers to run the second heat when they did, in which Campari and Borzacchini died - it was simple manslaughter (in his opinion) for them then to have started the final in which poor Czaykowski rolled his big Bugatti on top of himself, and was burned to death." Alessandro Silva declared that Count Giovanni Lurani, as official in the Monza pits, and Giovanni Canestrini, editor at La Gazzetta dello Sport, were both present, stating that there was an oil spill (presumably by Trossi) and things were made worse by sprinkling it with sand between heats. This was the cause of the delayed start. Lurani hinted also about the drizzle. It could have been a deadly combination of oil, sand and water.
The Jalopy Journal
