Technical WHAT ARE THE ODDS OF MATCHING OLDER PAINT?

I was talking with a friend over lunch today and he was telling me someone had ran a grocery cart into the passenger side of his blue 50 Ford sedan and scratched the door and part of the front fender.

He never even noticed it until his wife pointed out a week later.

Have any of you had satisfactory results in touching up this type of damage? HRP

 

A good paint store has a tool that measures the light off of a color and matches it to their paint formulas. I know O Reilly's advertise they can match paint that way, might give them a try. As far as blending it in to the older paint, I'll step back and let the pro painter guys tell you about that....

 

Not a pro but I think that some types of paint have better results than others. My preference is single-stage, have had great success with the blend but I'm an outside driveway guy. Maybe Paint Guru will see this thread and have input.

 

In my line of work I blend paint all day everyday. I do spot work. I have been making and matching paints for 20 years and I love old cars and their paint jobs because it's a challenge. Doing new cars everyday gets boring and when I have old paint to match and blend is when it gets fun. I have an eye for colors and I can get them damn near perfect before I spray. I see tons of spot blends come out of the body shops and can't believe that pro painters can't match colors. When you have been doing it for along time you get to really know what your toners do. We can add flatteners to the base or clear to dull it out and give it the effect of old oxidizing paint. I have done tons of old hotrods, even candy jobs I can usually match and everyone says you can't match candies. If your friend was in California I would help you guys out no problem. I guess what I'm saying is it depends on how good your painter is.

 

A good paint store can make a perfect match.
I had the hood (new) painted & the match is Dead Nuts

 

You got lucky. Most paint jobbers are just like part stores of today. They just hire anyone. Paint is measured on a scale and a few drops too many can have a major change to the color. If I have a color made by a paint house I always ask them to give me a little of each toner so I can match the paint as close as I can. Not to say there's not good ol boys that have been in the business for along time matching colors and you should find those paint houses. All I can say is matching colors on old paint is a challenge and if the painter knows the effects of the toners they should be able to match old paint.

 

Most quality body shops today will have a computerized paint system that mixes paint. They will have a camera that will help them match the pain. A good shop will take it from there and match it perfect and blend it into the rest of the car. If at all possible you want the shop doing the paint match to also do the pain t job, they have a lot more reason to get it right.
As far as O'Rileys is concerned they are a great place to buy car stuff like chrome valve caps and batteries, I shop there all the time but not paint.


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I've seen it done, it's truly an art when it's done right. Seen a '60 Buick garage find that had one place on top of one of the rear fins fudged, from years of a drippy garage roof. Effected area probably less than a square foot. The rest of the original paint was damn near pristine. The owner sought out a known longtime painter/builder who had the skills and the passion for it. Did a helluva job for him, I was amazed. Color was a metallic gold-ish/bronze. I'm sure it wasn't a cake walk to match & blend. There are guys out there who can do it, & the paint mix is only half of the equation.

 

My DuPont dist here uses the Camera system..I have used it on several different jobs..Always a perfect match.

 

The odds are in favor of the experienced and disciplined craftsman. in 45 years of painting there's about 3 colors/jobs that got me. One of them was never meant to be spotted in, an early 80s Lincoln "Jubilee Blue Poly" that was referenced as "OA only". I tried for 3 days to get it like the OEM, no way. Painted the whole side and the client was happy. I find today that material compatibility (or lack of) is as much a challenge as color match/blend. An old lacquer job can tell a painter "F@#k Off!" faster than a pissed off spouse. All said above about color cameras and mixing folk, right on. I get tints from "both sides" of colors I match. That means I get the 'red side and green side' of blues for example. Just a few oz of each along with the paint once ordered then do test panels before putting it on the car and adjust as needed. Some take an hour or more, some are right on with the 1st try. Worth the effort, sometimes more rewarding than a whole job.

 

Slow motion has it nailed. Find a painter who has the skills and passion for it. If the painter is just a painter and can care less about your old car then it will be a quicky just to get it out of the shop.

 

The odds of matching old paint is slim or none unless your an expert at tinting what you get from a paint supplier. I once had a lawn mower pick up a stone which chipped the paint on my 56 BelAir right in the middle of the trunk lid that had the original lacquer on it. Bought some of the original lacquer paint code and after spraying it out, it was not even close to matching. Removed the chrome V on the trunk and it took a friend of mine who I consider a great painter about an hour of tinting the paint and matching the paint under the V to get it perfect. After filling and just painting the area of the chip it was impossible to see the repair. Matching old paint can be done if you know what your doing. Trying to get a paint supplier to perfectly match the paint isn't going to happen. More then likely a lot of tinting will be required. Not to mention the art of paint blending. In my case the job was made easy by the fact the paint was lacquer and the painter was highly skilled. Other types of paint could be way more difficult.

Gary

 

yep, need to find a guy that has a top notch reputation for matching colors - we all know how things can look good under one light,then look like a sore thumb under other lighting - had a friend that took his '39 Chevy to a place that said they could match anything - after that experience his car had the nick name of "two tone"

 

Depends on how much "years of age" you add into the paint can. Then adding 20 years or so into the gun cup helps too.

A good blend job where the new work fades out over the old should make most folks happy.

 

I asked the same question on the "Corvette Forum" a couple of years ago. I was literally blasted off it by the guys who can afford 5 figure paint jobs. I got absolutely no help. "paintslinger805", do you have a cousin in Minnesota? Do you guys have any kind of network that would help me find a shop in my area? I had my Corvette done about 9 years ago, and IMHO, it doesn't need a complete paint job, but there are a couple of small areas that could use some help. (I use the car as my DD in the summer.)

To the rest of you, anyone know someone with these skills in north central Minnesota?

 

I had that PPG camera system try to match the paint on my Packard and it was so far off it was a joke. Basically I got a quart of paint in the general vicinity and I grabbed a bunch of old leftover cans off of the shelf and started tinting from there. My paint is old and faded so the tops of the front fenders were much more grey and the bottoms of the quarters were more blue, I had to re-tint as I blended in areas. I used some flattener on the top sides to help match the sheen.

It turned out OK but I'm not as good at it as some more experienced painters are. Buffing after blending is tough too because you end up buffing some of the misty edge off that helps blend the colors. It's possible, but it's tough.

If I would have just sprayed on what the computer match gave me, it would have looked so obvious and awful. I think that works best on newer cars that aren't faded and that also already have a paint code and mix in the computer system somewhere. My computer mix told me my color was some 90's Mercedes color, I think it picks the chip closest to the color in the system, it doesn't make a custom mix for every scan.

 

Subscribed.This is a very interesting thread. I hit a dear last August and had a hard time getting the hood straight again--- I came out well but I could not find a painter who is capable to match the paint. I´m not picky, the 55 is my daily driver and has the faded factory paint, to get it close would be good enough for me.

 

Those camera systems don't give you a paint formula, they give an existing paint code that's closest.

Does that spray out look like the fender?!

 

I spent many years as a painter, started in the early 70's. First real job was at a Lincoln dealership where the head painter had been there since the 40's and really knew how to match paint, had too he said, "you know how fussy Lincoln owners are". He took me under his wing and taught me how to do it. Anyway, I got good at it, enough so even competitor shops and the paint stores would send tough matches to me. Now days these painters expect the paint store with their fancy camera to match the paint, no one teaches them how to tint. The camera is ok, it will get close but still not perfect. Of course back then everything just about was single stage and we used lacquer for spot work, this base coat clear coat stuff is much tougher to match IMHO which is why I guess blending into adjacent panels became norm. I no longer paint but I still take in a spot job in once in a while on old cars, no one else wants to do them around here. Hard to get lacquer any more but I've had pretty good luck with single stage urethane.
So, that 50 Ford, no problem, just find a painter that's an old guy like me that did it back when it was normal. You know, old car, old painter. Young painter would probably want to clear coat the whole side or something, screw it all up. Wouldn't scare me at all to do it, just don't bring me a new Toyota to match.

 

That was my experience, exactly. Not much use for a custom color or on an old car unless it was recently repainted with a modern paint color.

 

Good question. I have thoughts about selling my 33 pickup, but would like to paint and install the correct rear fenders before I do. Problem is, it has one repaint and it is 60-70 years old and not only dull, but has a lot of character as well. Not sure I'd ever be able to pull it off?

 

Can be done. I did it to a 39 Ford several years ago. Car had a 50ish year old well seasoned paint job with lot's of character as well. Someone before it was painted had welded in VW headlight buckets, guess they thought 6v seal beams would be an upgrade, but they looked terrible. I repaired the fenders and painted them in matching the paint, rock chips and all. I tell people it was the hardest crappy paint job I ever did. Really, not much different then these guys doing fake "patina" except you have to match the color including any color/ primer that is showing up under the paint. PM me if you want tips on how to do it. Thought I might do a tech tread on it someday although not sure how the board would feel. I know how most feel about fake patina (me included) but matching existing might fly. No photos of the 39 but I have this, I know it's an OT car but I painted this fender just a couple weeks ago. It was involved in a minor wreck and replaced the fenders with a junk yard replacement. He didn't want to paint the whole car yet yet didn't want to have an orange fender on it.

 

Bingo

 

And you have to have a nice polished part of the paint to get best match. So when the car is dull or oxidized you don't want to polish one little spot for camera to work.

 

I guess today's spectrometers are pretty accurate. HRP

 

Why not paint the front fenders black? It would look great, and be easier to fake the black to match, than trying to match the body color. And with the black headlights, I think the black fenders would look the best!

 

I'm even more impressed with the shops that mix their own paint colors then a spectrometer which only gets you close.

Gary

 

BS,
That pic I posted came from a huge manufacturer's color lab with unlimited resources.

 

What did I say to warrant that reply? HRP

 

I quoted it.

I guess Today's spectrometers are pretty accurate.

They aren't