I have a chance to buy a complete 77 Caprice Classic for $500, so I can canibalize it for the engine and trans. It has the 350 with turbo 350 trans. Good to use or look for something else?? Need some opinions before buying. Also would the rear axle work too?
The rear is gonna be too wide, but the motor and trans will be a good choice, if you want to run a SBC. Depends on the style / look your going for.
The small block would for sure work - but if I were you I'd keep lookin dude - every body has got a SBC - look for like a early / mid 50's buick or Olds 4dr - I bought a 53 olds 4dr up here for under a G and am using the 303 rocket /******* / and rock solid rear end under my 31A --- Old school is the only way to fly ---
If you're going to part it out see if you can get it for a couple hundred less, unless you already did that barter stuff then $500s ok. It'd be a purrfect motor for a T, but the rear end would be way too wide and can't be narrowed so save it for a truck that needs one. What are ya going to do with what's left?
Its great that everyone is so anti-sbc. Eventually everyone will have a nail-head, or caddy or flathead then havin' a sbc will be different. Doesn't matter that its available to this guy cheap. Nice easy way for a guy to get into the hobby.....naaaa slag him for being cookie-cutter. 'cause running those other mills is traditional.
Your SBC is the easiest, cheapest, most practical way to go, But how 'bout recreating this: Original "T for Two" 1959 photo, 271 cu/in Dodge Hemi.
Old skool is the look Im going for unfortunatly thats the look everyone is going for lately. This means that things like the flat head you are going to pay top $$. However I would like something a little older than a 77 for the looks as well. I dont see anything wrong with a SBC at all I mean they were the***** to have not too long ago, plus they are now inexpensive to get.
Maybe I should be real different and run an old skool turbo diesel benz 4cylinder...that would be different! lol
Older than 77 for looks? You do know that a 77 small block looks the same as a 57 from 3 feet away? No offense, but it looks like you need to sit back, read, listen and learn. I dont mean just here. Buy or borrow all the old magazines you can find. Talk to old timers (not the 30 year olds, I mean guys over 60). Go to events, make a freakin plan! Your question is similar to "how long is a rope?"
I don't know, but the sbc sounds like a great way to go unless you have lots of time and skills to continually take care of a more finicky motor such as some of those being suggested. I know most people have them (I do), but it sure does make life easy when something goes wrong. A broken part oops head to Napa or Kragen fix and on your way you go. I'm not cappin on any of the folks who gave their opinion but from my low knowledge/time end of things, I'd rather spend it on the road. Good Luck.
You guys dont catch on very quick. He A: Either posted the question as a prank. OR B: hasnt been around cars or this board enough to gleen the wheat from the chaff. A simple question like this leads me to believe this chap is just getting started with early cars. I want to see him build a real car, not some abortion of parts from some caprice "just cause it was cheap" Hotrodding has no rules, but we have history and some good examples in the form of guidelines that we can follow. Too far on either side of say, the Pierson Bros car. and you have a boring streetrod or a cartoon abomination that is undriveable. That said, this guy need to just hang low and study what turns his crank. then study it some more, before deciding if that is his dream.
if you do it right you can use the sbc and when it's used up throw in ANY other motor you want. engine swapping is the easiest part of hot rodding, don't make the initial choice hold you up. Paul
oh yeah, for my '27 I'm starting with a little Stude V8 but leaving enough room and building it strong enough I can put anything from a big block Chev to a little flat six Dodge in it, hell I could prolly even stuff a straight eight in there if I wanted to. here's my little brother making vroom-vroom noises.. Paul
[ QUOTE ] You guys dont catch on very quick. He A: Either posted the question as a prank. OR B: hasnt been around cars or this board enough to gleen the wheat from the chaff. A simple question like this leads me to believe this chap is just getting started with early cars. I want to see him build a real car, not some abortion of parts from some caprice "just cause it was cheap" Hotrodding has no rules, but we have history and some good examples in the form of guidelines that we can follow. Too far on either side of say, the Pierson Bros car. and you have a boring streetrod or a cartoon abomination that is undriveable. That said, this guy need to just hang low and study what turns his crank. then study it some more, before deciding if that is his dream. [/ QUOTE ] Maybe an intro would have helped us to know more about him... Mutt
[ QUOTE ] "how long is a rope?" [/ QUOTE ] Four times as long as half way to the middle. Sorry Tman, couldn't resist....
DUDE! If you pass on that caprice, pass the 411 on to me, I want it! that was my first car, '77 is the 1st year of that new body style... rather rare now... I have unfinished business and a complete set of deluxe hubcaps for that exact car... that and having a spare drivetrain for my truck tucked away somewhere is a good idea... lemme know... -J
Put the Caprice motor and******* in your heap. Sell or scrap the rest of the Chevy, the axle won't work. Build this low dollar 350 powered bomb and get it out of your system so you won't feel the need to run a small block Chevy in a COOLER car down the road sometime!
Buying a complete car and using that as a donor is the cheapest and best way to go. Not only for the engine, trans and rearend, but also a lot of the other small parts you need. I think the 350/350 is fine, but agree that rearend is too wide. A better choice for a donor would be a small or mid-size car. You can find an older car with*****py interior or body damage, then use that as a donor. Or pay a bit more and get one with good body and interior, sell off the parts to recoup your money and then use what's left for your car. I would recommend that you look at some 60's cars as donors. Find a non-Chevy and use that. Such as a Pontiac, Olds, Buick, Dodge, Ford, etc. You are only limited by your ability to see what lies underneath that donor car. Examples of potential 60's and early 70's donors: Mavericks, Nova clones (Ventura, Apollo), Cutlass/Lemans/Skylark, Firebird, Dart to name a few right off top of my head. You can even consider early 60's and late 50's cars. Although these tend to have more cost and drivetrains that are a bit more obsolete.
I agree. I am going to drop a 350 (which I have) in my '36 to get it on the road. While I will be looking for a nice nailhead or rocket to drop in.
Use the sbc but dress it like an early sbc, 283\327. I really don't see anything non-traditional about a sbc done right. Hell, they have been around since 1955 and this guy is thinking about using one for the same reason they have "traditionally" been used for years. They are plentiful and cheap. My nickles worth. George
[ QUOTE ] Use the sbc but dress it like an early sbc, 283\327. I really don't see anything non-traditional about a sbc done right. Hell, they have been around since 1955 ... [/ QUOTE ] Oh, that's too new. You must use one of those "Early V8's" like the Buick Nailhead because they've been around since.....Oh, only 1954. Steering someone in the directio of one of these archaic old engines that need unobtanium adapters to hook up to a transmission that will work in a light weight T is just not good advice for this guy at this time. If he was ready to be getting into that kind of technical stuff he wouldn't be asking questionsabout it in the first place, He'd already have enough background behind him to know what a pain in the**** it's going to be.
In a car as light as a '27 T highboy roadster, a stock 283 with a two-barrel and a cast-iron Powerglide will have a power-to-weight ratio that could easily enable you to get yourself into more trouble than you could ever afford to get yourself out of. The point here is that any relatively modern OHV V-8 that's in decent condition would do the job. Having said that, the Caprice engine is not something that you'd ever want to build into a racing engine. A '77 mouse will have poorly-flowing heads and a cast crank. Since there's nothing out of the Caprice that you'd use other than the engine and transmission, I'd look for a 327, and leave the '77 smog-motor for someone who doesn't care about performance. As for those who would criticize someone for using the engine that revolutionized hot rodding and went on to become the engine that won more races than anything in the history of motorsports, I just ignore them. I'd like to see some dyno sheets for a naturally-aspirated nailhead that makes 600 horsepower on pump gas. Dave http://www.roadsters.com/power/ http://www.roadsters.com/bbc/ http://www.roadsters.com/engines/ http://www.roadsters.com/eb/
Tman, "how long is a rope?" that's funny as hell. Tman's right though, if'n anyone steers this kid towards some archaic old powerplant he will have enough rope to hang hisself. SBCs rule, they work, they're cheap, they make power, they look good, what more do you want?
That coming from a guy that runs a fargin PACKARD V/8 in his hot rod...listen to him and Dr. J. They're right.
I say buy it and get on with life. If it runs good... you will get some miles under your belt... and then, if you feel like it... you can pull it and install a motor that is more "correct". I think MOST people who get all hung up with "correct" parts for traditional hot rods are "arm chair quarterbacking"... If you look hard enough... 99% of the quote "Traditional Hot Rods" have parts that aren't so TRADITIONAL. Among the Jelly beans on the road today... ANY old car, done to look old... is going to look******en'. It's about the overall look and feel of the car... I'll let the cat out of the bag here... the Motor in the Roach Rod is a brand new (rebuilt), 10:1, 350 Chevy. I ground the numbers off of it... and grafted in the numbers off a 283... I ground all 350 marking off... and ground the "rib" into the front of the block like a 283. I hung all the 283 tin on it off the motor melt down motor. I hung the old starter on it. A new water pump. Rams horns manifolds off the MMDM on it... I even ground a set of later 461 heads... with the big valves in 'em... to look like the power pack heads... after bowl blending, unshrouding the chambers and porting them, of course. JB weld is my friend... let it get tacky... break out the old tooth brush... and you can make any surface look like CAST IRON. I topped it off with my own home made two two-barrel intake. The carbs are 381 CFM each... that's a total of 762CFM... about right for a 375hp 350... hmmmmm... open pleanum intake kills the low end that I don't really want with a 5" tire... along with a 3.08 gear and a 29" tall tire... I run a Petronix in the stock distributor... along with an MSD6A box under the dash... Now I've never had anyone say "you should have put a nailhead in it... or a Caddy... or an Olds motor..." I've had some people say "that would look cool with a flathead in it"... but I usually respond "yea, but I like to haul****" With the SBC, the car is FASTER... and gets better MILEAGE... is more RELIABLE for the amount of abuse I give it... and was CHEAPER to build... Add to that, it's smaller and lighter than the 50's and 60's BOAT ANCHORS... and doesn't look all that bad... and you have a winning combo. I invite all the SBC haters to post pictures of their alterantive motored cars... that can do what mine does... what's that? There aren't any? Oh... hehehe... Sam.
I apologize for sounding all*****y and all (that's what I do best)... but I hate to see a kid get steered the wrong way on his first project. I think we all would love to be driving around in a period perfect hot rod. But really, how many of us REALLY have them? I think every first time builder should have the goal of getting his hot rod on the road ASAP... school the boy on a******en' stance... or what wheels to buy... and the engine? It's a v8 right? He can put finned valve covers on it... three carbs, headers or Rams Horns... and paint it red or orange... if he really wants to go hawg wild... he can grab some early heads w/o the accesory holes in them... Sam.
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