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What is so wrong with a 700R4 Tranny????

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Sam Navarro, May 3, 2010.

  1. big creep
    Joined: Feb 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,944

    big creep
    Member

    ive hear it cost a ton to make it electronic, is it so or is it easy??? please tell us, im curious?

     
  2. I've used one in my '57 Daily for over 16 yrs.. beat the crap out of it & it keeps on ticking. I leave mine in 3rd, on the streets. An I only use 4th on long stretches & the fwy. 700R4's are always trying to upshift, plus I get bored & look forward to shifting.
     
  3. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 24,476

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The 4L60E and the 4L80E are already electronic. They don't have a traditional valve body. It is more of a valve block with electric solenoids on it.

    Neither has any internal capability of shifting themselves.

    They need an external "box" to shift them. A few companies sell them. I use the ones from TCI. They are made by F.A.S.T. (Fuel Air Spark Technologies).

    The "box" is somewhat universal. The harness and the settings you choose make it for whatever electronic transmission you want. You plug it all in, add a throttle position sensor (which snaps into the TV/kickdown cable bracket on the carb), and attach a coil wire (for RPM signal). It programs via a laptop, and is super easy. If you can post on the HAMB, you can set one of these up.

    The box, harness, and TPS are not terribly cheap, though. Luckily, I only spend my customer's money.

    There is even a output drive box that can turn a speedometer cable, so you can keep a stock speedometer too.
     
  4. big creep
    Joined: Feb 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,944

    big creep
    Member

    thanks homie, im going to look into that!!!

     
  5. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 24,476

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  6. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 14,214

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    One more vote for the 200R4. As said before better 1 2 shift, size, and 700 can have throttle position issues if not set up correctly.
     
  7. big creep
    Joined: Feb 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,944

    big creep
    Member

  8. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 24,476

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I got the last two 4L80E's at the local self-service yard, for under $100, each. Only one needed a rebuild. Makes the electronic price tag seem a bit lower.
     
  9. big creep
    Joined: Feb 5, 2008
    Posts: 2,944

    big creep
    Member

    isnt that for a 4x4??? i know my truck had one.it was a 2000 crew cab. my work tuck rocks a 4L60e but thats cause its a 2x4

     
  10. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 24,476

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    There are 4x4 and 4x2 4L80E's.
     
  11. What it boils down to is:

    200R4 = muchly improved TH200 with OD gear added - Chevy, BOP and dual cases exist.
    700R4/4L60 = TH350 with OD added. Chevy pattern case only
    4L80E = TH400 with OD added - no non-electronic version of this trans exists, or everyone would be using it. Also Chevy only.

    Both the 200 and 700 can be built to handle high torque and high horsepower applications. Both in stock form will handle a fair amount of abuse, but can be killed. In a car that you intend simply for normal driving and aren't going to constantly beat on, so long as they're adjusted properly, either one will last a long time.

    Just to give an idea, the one I beat up is in an '89 Suburban that has a ridiculous 2.73 gear in it. I towed as much as 7500 lbs behind it and I still drive it around the lot once in a while - it got parked only because the truck was so rotted I couldn't get it inspected anymore.
     
  12. GasserBastards
    Joined: Apr 20, 2010
    Posts: 14

    GasserBastards
    Member
    from oklahoma

    legend has it the earlier 700's had weaker tail shafts, at least thats what i hear from all the hard core four wheel drive people i know, think maybe 87 was the year they beefed them up, i dont listen to four wheel drive guys anyways, i know too many of them, the remind me of dirt trackers.
     
  13. R. Seghi
    Joined: Dec 23, 2006
    Posts: 2,851

    R. Seghi
    Member

    I'm going to build my '57 Nomad for cruising and will go from a 4spd to an OD. I don't care if it's traditional. I just wanna cruise.
     
  14. mustangsix
    Joined: Mar 7, 2005
    Posts: 1,531

    mustangsix
    Member

    I've driven four or five 700R4 conversions. The ones that felt best and most refined used a vacuum switch to engage the torque converter clutch lockup.

    I think some of the cheaper kits simply wire up the TCC to engage when it shifts into fourth so you sometimes get this clunky upshift, especially at part throttle. The cars that had the vacuum switch would shift into fourth and then as the load decreased, the vacuum would increase, allowing the switch to engage the clutch. They were a lot smoother. Also, with a slight push of the pedal, the vacuum would drop, disengaging the TCC but not necessarily downshift to third.

    Picking the vacuum switch point would be a consideration, but I always thought they operated better that way.
     
  15. brad chevy
    Joined: Nov 22, 2009
    Posts: 2,627

    brad chevy
    Member

    As stated earlier 700r4 is a good tranny if operated correctly,its an overdrive tranny,around town use drive,open road overdrive,thats what keeps the tranny shops in business,misuse.
     
  16. 700R4 and 4L60E have different gearing than TH350 and TH400. First gear in TH350/400 is 2.48, and it's 3.06 in the 4L60E and 700R4. The first gear in the new 6L80E is even lower.

    So I take that most of you guys run non-lockup 700R4's?

    I've had built 4L60E's in OT cars, have gone 11.0's with one worked good. But I wouldn't personally beat on a built one past 500hp.
     

  17. Sam I run a similar setup with a 3:42 rear end and a 29 inch tall rear tire.
    That equates to 1900 rpm at 70 mph.(4th gear with the converter locked up) A 3:73 is a good ratio to go with your 700 depending on your rear tire size. There is a couple handy calculators here.
    http://www.project33.com/tiresize.cfm

    Jim
     
    55Don likes this.
  18. UnsettledParadox
    Joined: Apr 25, 2007
    Posts: 1,107

    UnsettledParadox
    Member

    summit racing or maybe jegs sells a tcc switch to swap the 700r4 into non electric cars. cheap and easy
     
  19. 29Coupe
    Joined: Jan 5, 2005
    Posts: 561

    29Coupe
    Member

    I've got a 700 in my A Coupe. Works great!!

    -Jeremy
     
  20. ZRODZ
    Joined: Jun 21, 2009
    Posts: 449

    ZRODZ
    Member

    I ran a 700R4 in my 54 Chev panel for many years and many miles w/350 sbc and never had a problem. I'm now running one in my 50 Dodge PU w/350 sbc and 4 wheel drive, both very nice setups and easy install with good mpg as a plus.
     
  21. rubyreddog
    Joined: Nov 4, 2009
    Posts: 79

    rubyreddog
    Member

    Sam, there is nothing wrong with using a 700-r4 trans as long as you obtain the correct rpm range at cruise speed. A mostly stock engine will be happy at 1800 to 2200 rpm at cruise speed. The more radical the cam the higher the rpm. My stock Chevy truck runs at 1850 rpm at 65 mph. My merc with a 265 rv cam runs at 2250 rpm at 65. (2.89 ford rear end gears)

    Cruising at too low an rpm can cause problems for your engine and transmission (excess heat). I would say, IMHO, that 3.55 gearing is a little high for you , depending on your cam profile, and tire diameter. You don't want to be lugging the engine while cruising. Also, make sure that your timing is "all in" at your cruise speed.

    There are some excellent threads on t v cable adjustment on the HAMB. Check out the advice on vacuum activated and pressure activated switches for the 4 th gear converter lock up. I run both, in series, on my cars. Enjoy!!!
     
  22. 40WILLYSCRAZY
    Joined: Mar 26, 2009
    Posts: 249

    40WILLYSCRAZY
    Member
    from fresno

    Do it and fuck everyone who does not like it. At least half of the purist rat rodders look like they are a week shy of a shower. It's like listening to a white supremist who says he is a member of the master race , that is missing some teeth and can't spell. Now come on, would you really take any of their advise ????
     
  23. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,790

    zman
    Member
    from Garner, NC


    someone went off their medication. :eek::D
     
  24. wtf?
     
  25. TooMany2count
    Joined: Jan 6, 2003
    Posts: 1,373

    TooMany2count
    Member
    from Cahokia,IL


    Thanks for that link, sure solves a bunch of problems when you're wanting to add an OD trans to an early carb'd mtr.

    But I will say I beat the living snot out of my 700r4 in my 84 Chevy Burb.
    Put over 250,000 on it never babying it, always ran hard & wide open.
    Over 150,000 mile were pulling a 16-20ft trailer.
    All I ever did was changed the fluid 2 times a year and added a bottle of Lucas.
    Even my transmission guy was surprised it went past 75,000 since it was the early "junk" OD trans..joe
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2010
  26. Ralphies54
    Joined: Dec 18, 2009
    Posts: 798

    Ralphies54
    Member

    Excellent trannys,Got a700R4 in my avatar pickup and a 200-4R in my 57 chevy. Love them, holding a clutch in is misery to these old knees. Be sure and use lock-up coverters to get the most out of them.
     
  27. Leevon
    Joined: Oct 5, 2009
    Posts: 400

    Leevon
    Member
    from Nixa, MO

    The best thing you can do for a 700R4 is set up the TV cable with a pressure guage and make sure the TV plunger depth matches the carb pull length. They can "feel" ok and "look" ok, then you put the guage on it and realize you're not getting line pressure early enough, thus the bad rap for burning clutches right away. I check them against factory psi specs in each gear at the recommended RPM's and set the action so the pressure comes right off-idle. It's great peace-of-mind.

    Oh yeah, get an adjustable vacuum switch for the lock-up it will make your life much easier and give you the ability to tune the lock-up RPM.
     
  28. kirby1374
    Joined: Dec 16, 2008
    Posts: 427

    kirby1374
    Member

    I wished I would have used the vacuum lock up on my 2004r. I bought a B&M control that was adjustable to mph. It worked but would lockup at a speed not in relation to engine rpm/gear I was at.
     
  29. torchmann
    Joined: Feb 26, 2009
    Posts: 787

    torchmann
    BANNED
    from Omaha, Ne

    I wonder if a guy could setup some toggle switches and rheostats to shift a 4l60E? never looked at the schematic..would be cool if you could.
    Somewhere about 1998 they upgraded the front pump and input shaft size on the 700r4.
    I had one in an 82 gmc diesel. first year for the 700r4 and the 6.2
    In 82 only the 700r4 would give lockup in the top 3 gears not just overdrive. We put 140k miles on the tranny maybe 10,000 of that towing a 30' mallard travel trailer. Dad always towed in D not in OD so the OD cluster never wore out. also when in 2nd pulling a mountain grade it was automatically in lockup to run cooler.
    A lot of dudes tried towing in OD and burned them up.
    Also when GM dropped from 3 Lockup switches in the valve body (OD,D,2) to 1 (OD) the torque converter not locking up tended to make alot of heat.
    I'm not exactly sure if they went from the top 3 gears in lockup to only OD or if they just dropped 2nd gear lockup.
    The 700r4 never burned up on me. It did pudh the front seal out of the pump. Tranny shop told me that's due to leaky old worn seals inside. They said I could drill the fluid return hole from the back side of the seal down into the pan a little bigger but the seal popping out is the sign it's time for a rebuild. They said if I did the mod it would last a while longer then burn up for sure. right now it's still a prime core so I pulled it and threw in a th400 for until I can afford to put a kit in the 700r4
     
  30. 29AV8
    Joined: Jan 12, 2009
    Posts: 222

    29AV8
    Member

    Other than being a General Motors product. I have rebuilt a bunch of them
    better have the T.V. cable adjusted right.
     

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