What is your experience with Holley Sniper TBI?

Like the title says What is your experience with Holley Sniper TBI? I put one on my 49 Buick with a 472 Cad motor. Haven't run it much yet to let it learn, so just wondering what others outcomes were.

 

The only guy I know who had one took it off after a year. He had constant problems that Holley couldn't solve. It would go lean for no known reason. After multiple parts changed and many software updates, he junked it.

 

I have played with one of the Sniper Stealth units. The one that looks like a double pumper. Install was pretty easy. Never had any problems with it.

 

I am using 3 Snipers ,& few other models that require laptop.

One , sniper on a tow truck 454
Another Sniper X flow ,witch has been on 3 different engines from stock Vortec to 434 sbc & blown sbc
& another super Sniper 4500, blown roots ,,,,
Been EFI ing for close to 10 yrs ,
Wants you lean ,You will not go back to carbs,
The only issue New out of box on one was a leaking O ring ( bowl gasket)
I called for O ring would not just send , instead sent another New sniper next day with a return label,
On things like this I deal Direct with the manufacturer no third-party,
& a big PS , most of the tec's
DO NOT HAVE A CLUE about there products they are giving
Tec support for !!!!! Many companies

 

I had one on my ‘57. Learned the hard way about RFI but that gave me enough problems to start with a bad taste. It ran pretty well after that but I was too dumb to figure out how to get the idle down and how to tweak everything just right. Got frustrated and sold it.

 

I installed Series 1 Sniper on the wife's PU. That's it hiding behind that fuel bowl I added. It is possibly the finest piece of engineering I have ever played with. Being built by Holley, it talks to the MSD (plug-n-play) distributor, tuning both as I drive once the engine hits 185 degrees. Throttle response is FAST! It started on the first crank (new engine, new everything) and did the 20 minute burn without blinking. I drove the truck yesterday again and is so effortless. No pedal to start, no cranking, no exhaust smell, no hesitation, tidy 700 RPM idle...seriously why not?

Holley tech was outstanding! I had incorrectly entered "engine with coil" in the startup wizard, since it has a damn coil. The truck would not start at all. It tried but would not stay running. The tech figured out that the setting needs to be "timing box" so it would talk to the distributor, and it has been perfect ever since.

Series 2 uses your smart phone to tune rather than the handheld LCD screen that I mounted on the custom dash I built. I worked hard to hide the wiring harness and the ugly TBI, but in the end I am quite pleased with the install.

Would I install it in an open fender Hot Rod? Nope. But the PU? It is nearly invisible.

 

This is the dash I built hide my electronics

This is the Holley LCD panel and the electric vent switch. Hee hee.

 

That looks great with that big ol breather and that fake fuel bowl on there. No one would probably ever know it was efi if you didn't bring it to their attention.

 

Only a couple guys on here saw that over the last few years and asked "what the hell carb is that?"
I don't like showing off the new stuff. But I'll use it and bury it. I just don't want to look at it. Hiding tech is an art form. It even has a "choke" as this side was butt ugly! This pic has the ground lead, I added the red power lead as well. Clearly a Sniper when I zoom in (throttle sensor harness). You can see the aluminum bracket under the front carb studs securing the fake fuel bowl. The "choke" is mounted with 3M double sided tape.

"The eye sees what it wants to see" (scotoma). Not a new art form. Centuries old actually. I just adapted it to classic cars.

And the coil? MSD red coil, painted black and a Bosch sticker I found on the internet, mounted to hide the TBI.


On a 69 RS Camaro I built I added electric headlight door motors form a Fiero as the vacuum canisters are horribly unreliable (in fact GM used slotted doors on the 69 so the headlights would still work when the doors refused to open after complaints on the 68). I ran all of the wiring inside the factory, striped, vacuum lines so no one could see it. Even the line from the carb was there, I just put a copper BB in it to block the vacuum. An electronics board was added to the back side of the vacuum reservoir out of sight. Yes, someday a guy will cut those hoses and the headlights won't open any longer but that is not my problem.

 

Installed plenty of Snipers on sbf's. The issue was electrical interference with the brain on the Sniper and distributor in the front. No issues when I switched to the Terminator Stealth and Stealth Max. Looks like a double pumper and puts the brain box under the dash without any interference. Personally I wouldn't use the Sniper as it looks like a TBI. Use the Terminator Stealth instead as it looks like a real Holley carb. 550-1003 is the part number for the unit I use on non-power added applications. They can also control your electronic auto with the Terminator Stealth Max. Just ensure you have a clean power and ground.

 

I put 3500 miles on one in a sbf application. For the most part it was good. I didn't get the cold start fast idle to work consistently. I also used the Hyper spark ignition. That box generated huge heat which made me nervous. I drive my stuff long distances to get to shows so reliability is a real concern. My current driver has factory efi just because of parts availability. Most users that have a chevy and automatic seem to get real good results unless they have a parts failure.

 

Very clever.

 

I replaced a Holley 850 carb with a Sniper on the 427SBC in my 32. Big driveability improvement. I did use a rail mounted fuel pump and it died within the first month. Also dealt direct with Holley and they sent me a new and better Mallory pump and I haven't had any issues since. I have a couple friends with the FiTech and they are happy with that also.

 

There are "LOTS" of videos on UTube showing people installing EFI systems and setting them up. Also, Holley has classes in Bowling Green Ky.....I think at the Corvette Museum, where they teach people on a 2 day weekend for those that want to learn more. There is an initial class and then once that is completed people can sign up for an advanced class. The advanced class is more for people who want to do things like racing and use a lot of inputs to gather info.

Also, when ordering a kit, you need to call their tech line and get a recommendation for your specific needs. There are many similar variations, and they can save you from ordering the wrong stuff. By that I mean the best choice to hook your different ignition systems to the Holley harness. On the throttle bodies, the "Stealth" version looks a lot more like a carburetor. You also need to tell them if its for a naturally aspirated or a supercharged (or turbo) as they use a different Map sensor. Simple to get the right stuff if you just call them first.

The initial challenge with learning about EFI is to learn the names of the sensors that are used. Then it all makes sense and is easier to understand. Just like a carb, you had to learn the names of the components so you could talk and think about them. Most sensors are logically named.

Throttle Position Sensor..........Usually mounted on the end of the shaft that holds the butterflys/throttle plates just like carbs have. As the throttle goes from idle to WOT, this sensor works just like the rheostat in a light switch that lets you dim your interior light. 5 Volts are sent from the computer/ECU to the sensor. As the throttle opens, it causes more resistance in the sensor and and the voltage returning to the computer/ECU is less....say 3 volts. The computer now knows the throttle is 1/2 way to full throttle. Thats all there is to it.

Obviously you need to know how much air the engine is taking in. Unlike a carb, the EFI can deal with the "density" of the air as well as the "quantity" of the air. You know, hot air vs cold air and sea level vs 5000 ft or 10,000 ft. So they put an IAT sensor in the intake tract ahead of the throttle body. IAT stands for Intake Air Temperature sensor. It simply monitors the temp of the incoming air. Again, the computer sends out a 5 volt signal to the sensor. As the incoming air cools the sensor it will resist the flow of the 5 volts and only 3.2 volts
(or some other amount) will return to the computer. The computer knows that this voltage means a certain air temperature.

The "ECT" Engine Coolant Temperature sensor works the same way and tells the computer how hot or cold the engine is.

CKP stands for Crankshaft Position Sensor. It simply tells the computer where the crankshaft is "rotationally" just like pointing your timing light at your Dampener.

There is also a CPS or Camshaft Position Sensor that tells the computer where the cam is so the computer can tell whether the crankshaft is on its "Compression or its Exhaust stroke".

See, the computer has to know lots of things and so they simply make a sensor that provides that info by usually just either varying the voltage or sending a voltage at a specific moment in the engines rotation. Learn the names of the sensors and this stuff becomes pretty easy to understand how it works.

 

Interesting thread.
If it works, it improves starting.
Some find it more responsive than carb.
No mention of mpg being improved. Does that indicate no improvement?

 

To add to the above post, a few more acronyms:
MAP, manifold absolute pressure
BAP, barometric air pressure usually used in conjunction with MAF
MAF, mass air flow
Knock sensor, when detonation is detected, the ecu retards the timing or alters the fuel a/f ratio
Most know about O2 or Hego sensors, heated by 12 volts and then sensing by the cooling of the sensor in the exhaust flow to give feedback to the ecu as to the desired a/f ratio

 

I have ran one over a year now on the old truck in my avatar. It has been flawless since start up. I subscribed to the Holley Sniper forum on Facebook when I started the instal. It scared me and made me wonder if I had made a mistake switching to electronic fuel injection but so far all is good. I followed the instruction book on the installation.

 

MPG increase depends on how well carburetor & engine tuned working efficient.. if close to perfect By adding a
Port /TBI Snipper with injector's in throttle body it will be close to equal
Plus or minus 1-2 , If a carb way off tune I have see 5 plus MPG increase..
There are many thinking there carb & engine are tuned correct & they are not ..

On single O2 reading
I feel / believe where the O2 is taken a reading matters ,
( especially Performance applications)
On a Gen 1 sbc/bbc #6 cylinder runs
Leaner then the other cylinders , including different heat range spark plugs in different cylinders , especially on a dual plane intake ,So I like to keep that cylinder happy ,
& have O2 in #6 in stead of
collector / down stream where O2 will take a reading & average pf all the cylinders on that side of the engine.

Now where you will see a big deferents
In Mpg , performance , Ext in when you
Have a Sequential Efi , & capable where you can tune each cylinder individually
To Balance out each cylinder to the others
Fuel AFR per cylinder..
Timing / firing of each plug ..
Ext .
There is way more factors to balance a
Multi cylinder internal combustion engine

 

I drove it today for about 20 miles. I goes like stink, idles fine, but at about 20 MPH with light throttle it pulses fast then slow back and forth. It was real bad at first but seems to be slowly getting better. Hope it fixes it's self. All the help and posts have been helpful, thanks. Brian

 

To be clear, a TBI unit like Sniper only uses ECT, TPS, IAT, MAP, and O2 sensors. No MAF, cam or crank position sensors. Those are found on LS engines or more advanced setups designed for racing, etc. The Sniper ECU uses a tach signal wire off the coil to get engine speed info.

I've done dozens of installs covering the gamut of the popular brands (FAST, MSD, Edelbrock, FiTech, Holley, etc) ranging from stock 327s to blown stroker engines. Some need tuning (mostly the boosted applications) but most all are plug and play provided initial setup is done correctly. The technology has come a long way and the self-tuning capabilities are pretty amazing.

 

In my earlier post, I didn't want to try to explain too much, because I want to entice some of the guys to take a look see at this stuff..........and initially understanding that you don't have to be a computer whiz or write codes to change things is often a misconception when first thinking about them. All the codes and "algorithms" are inside the computer/ECU and preprogrammed. We don't need to do anything with them. We can however tell the computer we want to change something............The computer may have a certain air/fuel ratio it is programmed to achieve. We can tell the computer that we prefer a richer or leaner air fuel ratio at a certain rpm. Why would we want to do that ? Well, let's say we take the car to the drag strip on occasion, and we want to experiment and see if running a different air/fuel ratio will improve performance. We don't have to worry about messing up the original tune and never getting it right again. We can "save" that tune. Then tell the computer to duplicate that original tune and make your changes in the alternate tune. You can save both of them and select which one you want to use if you are just cruising or going racing. Pretty neat and efficient. No carb parts to buy to change the tune, just a few key strokes to tell the computer what you want the ratio to be and at what rpm you want that to happen. Boom......it's done and you immediately see the results. It's not rocket science, but you have to give it a chance. Next time you see a bunch of those young guys you love to hate with the later model cars, ask one of them to show you how easy it is to make changes.

 

I have not used a Holley but have had a throttle body EFI on my 1950 straight eight for 12 years and 28,000 or so miles. NO GOING BACK. I wish I had the tuning ability of the Holley. 1990s tech OBD 1. Chip inside the ECM has to be programed.

You will not be sorry, BJR.

Ben

 

Not a fan.
To its credit, it was very easy to install. I used the deluxe kit that came with their fuel system, and I spring for their distributor. I followed their instructions to a T and the car fired right up and idled on the first try. Which is the only time it wold run right.

It would sit and idle nicely all day long, but as soon as I'd try to take it for a drive all hell would break loose. It would randomly lose signal to various sensors, pop and bang, blow fire out of the exhaust, then die. Sometimes I could limp it home, on a few occasions I had to cal a rollback when it would refuse to restart. I had to get my car towed home twice trying to troubleshoot. I could let it sit and cool down, then it would fire right back up like nothing ever happened. Holley wasn't much help either. All they could say is to send them data logs. So I sent them 4 or 5 logs and all they could say is "Yeah I can see here where it did x, y, or z", but never anything that actually fixed the issues. I told them if they'll start paying for tows I'll send more logs, because it was getting expensive fast. I was on their support forums and spent hours on the phone with their techs. I get they're not going to just send a replacement unit without trying everything else first, but I was at the end of my rope after trying everything.

I ended up also replacing my alternator, starter, plug wires, plugs, and coil based on Holley insisting it was electronic interference. I tried all manner of RFI insulation and moving wiring around. Nothing helped. Tried getting it to work for 3 months before saying screw it and putting the carb back on. Maybe I just got a bad unit, but when it did run right, it did no better on fuel mileage (actually noticeably worse in my case with the way it would run when the issues started) and really didn't idle better than the carb I spent some time dialing in. Startup wasn't much better, but I will say part throttle response and tip in were improved. WOT was pretty much the same. Had it never given me issues, I still wouldn't say it was worth the money for me.

I met a lot of guys who had issues with similar EFI setups while trying to get mine to work. It was damn near 1 to 1 successful installs and guys who had problems. Guys that had theirs working perfectly for a good while before it crapped out, and guys like me who never could get theirs to run right. Granted this wasn't too long after these kits really caught on. I'm not trying to badmouth Holley here (still run a Holley carb and several parts made by their manufacturers), but if you look at the difference between the Gen 1 and Gen 2 units, you can see where the problems were. There's a reason carbs have worked so well for so long. I'm not against the technology at all, but there is a lot to be said about keeping it simple. Worst case with a carb is you toss a rebuild kit in the trunk and do a roadside rebuild, but if you let yours get to that point, you should already know better than to push it. If the EFI craps out, you're done, and it's not likely to let you know it's going to. YMMV

 

Eight Snipers, all worked very well. One quit but that was because the customer screwed up the wiring six months after we delivered it to him. We got it sorted pretty easily.
The handheld controller will get you in the ballpark but the desktop software is better to really get the tune right. Being able to control timing is a definite plus.
The only downside is that there is a big learning curve. The unit is smart enough to setup and run well just with the simple handheld setup, but there are features and terminology that you have to understand in order to really tweak the performance.

 

I have Sniper on the 455 Buick engine in my 49. It works great. The only problem I had was a faulty TPS. I have the HyperSpark integrated ignition, so I can play with timing and fuel curves. I have spent a bunch of time learning how to tune it and now feel very comfortable doing most anything to it.

Before you buy one, let me say this, It is NOT self tuning. It can adjust itself a little and give you performance similar to out of the box carburetors but if you want optimum performance, get a laptop and dig in. I do recommend their ignition system if you are going to go that route

 

I've been running one for 4 years. About 20,000 miles. No problems.
Gained 4 mpg.
Takes about 500 miles to learn. The more I drove the better the gas mileage.
I will put one on every car I own.

 

Sorry to hear that you had so many problems, definitely a bummer. There could have been a defective component in the EFI........but it is possible that there was something odd going on with your installation. The manufacturers have learned a lot more as time has gone by and I think most of Holley's EFI's are good quality these days. I have a friend who has an OEM 2000 Chevy truck that used to quit for no reason. Took it to several shops and they told him it was fixed.........wrong. He eventually found the problem and it was something simple to fix. How many forums have we seen on here where someone is struggling with a problem they can't seem to pin down.......and they are running a carburetor and a points distributor. Things like that happen no matter what technology someone uses......

 

From MY experience, voltage is most important! 12.5 is great! 12 marginal! 11.9 is a no no. But then, it is in a points/carburetor system as well. Many times, especially back in the 6V days, engine would not fire until just as the starter system was released. Low voltage? Starter draw reducing voltage just enough the ignition system did not want to "fire". As the starter was released, the voltage increased just above the level needed to fire, the momentum of the engine allowed it to start.

The ONLY problems with mine have been electrical. ALL self induced. A wire pinched through carelessness. A wire rubbed until shorted due to same. A "bad" corroded, loose pos cable, SELF BUILT, that took way to long to discover.

Ben

 

I'd be more willing to accept I made a mistake if it never ran right. But it idled perfectly and ran great until everything got nice and hot. I could drive it for 10-15 minutes with zero issues, then bang.

 

I wasn't implying that you did/didn't do something wrong. What I was trying to say is that sometimes there is something that affects performance and its not a normal issue. It's hard to explain what I mean, so think about it like this.......Cadillac built 1,000s of Escalades that worked just perfect........but one lady had one that just quit on her while driving. It was towed to a dealer and they supposedly fixed the problem. Shortly after that it quit on her again. Something out of the ordinary was obviously going on and even the dealer could not find the issue. Does that mean that all Cadillac Escalades are bad ? Is there a wire somewhere thats cross talking or shorting out when the vehicle becomes warm, simply a problematic sensor somewhere when it becomes warm. I know it was frustrating for you and don't mean to dis your experience. Just trying to say that most people have good luck with them and like them.....but they also need to realize that some will have problems, just like people have problems with carburetors when they buy a new one for an unknown engine combination. So again, I didn't mean to insinuate that it was something YOU did that caused the problem.