Technical What kind of stupid did I do?

On Friday I decided that over 50 years of ownership it was time to take my project over to get a VIN number check.

The back story is that I bought a 1936 Ford pickup from a local hot rodder when I was in high school. I worked on restoring this vehicle off and on through high school and college but never got far. Either I had time and no money or some money and no time.

Time flew by and many years later I pulled the chassis and such out of the barn and the body parts out of my parents garage. God bless them for their understanding over the years for not tossing my stuff out.

Over the past few years, I have been ever so slowly moving this project forward. The chassis has been set up with a y block engine, 3 plus 1 overdrive and a nine inch rear with a posi unit that was just rebuilt by a reputable shop.

The cab has had all the needed rust repairs and slight firewall modification completed. I am only a novice welder and it amazes me how slow I made progress on even some of the smallest weld-fixes.

Finally, it was time to take the chassis over for the VIN check with an eye towards possibly getting the project ready for registration. In CT, vehicles over 10 years old do not have a title. Since I have the bill of sale from way back, that together with the VIN check should get me through motor vehicles here successively. At least that’s what I did with my other vehicles.

As the project is no where near complete, I pushed the front end into my tow dolly, secured the front wheels and off I headed to the inspection station.

When I arrived there, I had to wait for the inspector to finish the emissions test on the cars there before me. Finally it was my turn. He asked a number of questions and proceeded to look at the Serial number stamped on the chassis. He called out the numbers but I noted one of the 3s he was seeing was actually an 8. He finally agreed it was an 8 and I was quite happy that his verification squared with my bill of sale. Success!

On the way home, on a very busy road, all of a sudden my rear wheels locked up. I had to pull over as I could go no further. Both rear wheels would not budge. Transmission in neutral.


Bear in mind, the total distance traveled was less than 15 miles at slow speed. What could have happened? There was lube in the differential but it did feel hot.

AAA got me home. Chassis immobile.

While eating lunch, I went to look at the paperwork given me at the inspection station, I saw the wrong VIN number entered.

With paperwork in hand I returned to the inspection station to find that though the inspector admits the mistake, he can’t fix it without the vehicle present.

Great. Will have to do this all over again.

So, what could have happened to my differential to lock it up?

 

Don't know about the axle; but I'd borrow a trailer and get the paperwork fixed while it's fresh in everyone's mind before taking anything apart.

 

does it have a driveshaft in it?

 

Did you feel the wheels after it locked up? Maybe the brakes were adjusted too tight and heated up and locked it up. If the driveshaft is in does the transmission have lube in it?

 

Are the rear tires as different in size as they look in your picture? If they are it might have a little tough on the posi.

If there is a driveshaft in there; any chance you backed up with the overdrive engage.

 

Your 9" rear looks suspiciously like a 8"

 

Since no lube flowing in trans maybe driveshaft yoke sized in tail housing bushing? 15 miles should be tolerable at low speed. Try rotating and/or removing driveshaft. Gees I'm surprised you didn't get yelled at for towing an unregistered frame with no lights. With paperwork in hand I returned to the inspection station to find that though the inspector admits the mistake, he can’t fix it without the vehicle present. Now that would really piss me off.

 

Thanks for the feedback. Here’s some additional information:
Driveshaft was connected. Tranny spins fine. Took out rear and wheels still bound. No brake shoes in place. May look like 8” but diff guys (reputable shop) confirmed it’s 9”. Never backed up as I can’t with the tow dolly. Could the tire difference cook the posi clutches?
Would like to get back to the inspection station but will have to put that off a bit. Based on what they told me, it would be a do over no matter what as there is a state owned camera tied to the record of ever verification.

 

I’d do this asap. After that, you have to start with the rear end. If you had no drive shaft, the problem is in the rear but maybe only brakes. E brake cables inadvertently applying the brakes?

 

You already confirmed the first thing I'd check, that the transmission was actually in neutral and hadn't slipped into gear. I couldn't tell from the photo, but if it is connected to the driveshaft, the transmission was my first likely culprit. I would disconnect the driveshaft at the differential and check to see if that frees the rear end. So yes, something's way wrong back there. I'd start by checking for fluid leakage, then pull the pinion seal and bearing if it is dry back there. The wheel bearings would be my next check, as they would have to come out anyway before moving on to the last place to look: the differential and limited slip clutches. On the way there, you'll also be dealing with the e-brake and the brake shoes, which I think would really have to be messed up to lock up the rear end. I'm thinking from past experience that a dragging or jammed brake shoe destroys itself before the whole rear end can lock up. Can't wait to hear what you discover. Good luck.

 

From what I can see, it looks like an 8" rear. Can the bottom 2 nuts on the pumpkin be removed with a rachet? If not, it's a 9". If it's a posi, the cluches were slipping the entire time If both tires are not the same diameter.

 

He already said there are no brake shoes on it.

Has to be a bearing failed. Pull the axles and the center section. Problem will be more obvious then. You can put the axles back in and hose clamp the axles together with a piece of angle iron so you can tow it again if it isn't an axle bearing seized.

 

So no brakes and still locked up...If posi is cooked it will slip [one wheel can turn with out the other moving] or even if it sized [doubt that] the ring gear/pinion should turn. Can you move the yoke at all? If pinion bearings are locked then ring dosen't turn and posi makes sure both axles lock; if one carrier bearing locks then the posi will make both wheels lock. Not enough weight back there to make tire size an issue.

 

You did my kind of stupid .

Easiest, pull the drive shaft and see if it rolls .

if it does not , it’s your diff . If it does it’s in the trans .

more then likely in the diff .
Did you use a friction modifier in the diff fluid ?

how much of a difference between the two rear tires ?

I don’t think it’s in the trans unless you had a catastrophic failure . Possible , but I don’t think so .

more then likely something in the diff .

hope it’s cheap and easy ( Like the women I like )
Good luck keep us posted .

 

Locked up,the pocket bearing in the top transmission shaft, or the output bearing.






Bones

 

Problem definitely in the differential. Tranny fine. Both wheels locked up and pinion will not turn.

 

pull the pinion support out of the rear, then you can tell if it's the carrier/wheels, or the pinion bearings..

looks like an early 9" to me. The center is oval shaped, and has the extra ribs that the early ones had.

 

Just registered my 49 Dodge coupe , hired a title service. DMV titled it a 4 door...??? .Paid twice because DMV made the error...Go figure....

 

I am going with RICH B. Like get the frame on a car trailer and back to the VIN correction people , as soon as possible.

 

Can you lock the steering and haul it backwards?

 

Did you put any oil in the rear end ? Sounds like a sciesed pinion bearing!




Bones

 

WAR casing!




Bones

 

What is this "cheap and easy" you speak of? Sounds like a unicorn to me.
I have heard the rumours and myths, but have never encountered it in my entire life.......

 

Was it filled to the correct level???
Were the bearings packed???

 

Thank you all for thoughts and suggestions. At the time of the lock up, the pinion area felt warm but not the outer axle bearing areas.
Imho, could be pinion bearing but hope to find out when I take the axle back to the shop that rebuilt it tomorrow.
Did it have the proper level of lube? Maybe not though there was at least 1 quart in.
Did it have the special posi fluid additive? No
Maybe these are the “stupid points” on my part.
Were the bearings packed? Can’t say as I would think the rebuild shop would do that. But??

Re VIN issue, that will have to wait. I did talk to the shop owner at length so am sure he will remember me. I guess as it stands now, there is a verified vin in CT for a vehicle that may not exist. When I go back, it will be a whole new VIN record. I’m out $10 but that’s nothing given the sum total aggravation on this adventure.

Also, I realize the chassis numbers on these old vehicles are not VINs but that’s the term they know at the inspection station.

Thank you all again and will report back when I know more.

 

Sounds like Connecticut DMV is a bit screwed up. I took my old '37 to my DMV back in 2010 to get it inspected, and titled before putting any time or money into it. DMV did the whole inspection, and gave it their blessing. They ended up giving the car an assigned VIN number because I told them the whole firewall and engine were going away, and that would destroy the VIN.
So a month later I got my new title, and I'd already began total disassembly of the car to start the build. They'd assigned the old VIN number back on my title!! I called and talked with a supervisor at state headquarters, and she said she'd look at the paperwork, and call me back. Two days later she called and said they'd fix it and send a new title. That came a month later, and correct VIN, but they'd left my wife's name off the title for some reason. Another call and another title sent, but this time they'd typed in 2dr. sedan instead of 4dr. sedan. Another call, and another new title sent; finally all correct. But all done without me ever having to take the car back to fix their mistakes.

 

DMV tards, at their finest.

 

Jack up the frame , both wheels, transmission in neutral and try to turn one axle, then the other. It the axles turn , then you have a pinion or carrier problem. If one of the axles won’t turn obviously that’s where your problem is.






Bones

 

Bones

Thanks. Pinion won’t turn and neither axle will either. On the truck to go back to rebuild shop in the am.

 

So the verdict is in: because I only had a qt of lube in, the pinion bearing seized up and froze the pinion. Towing with the rear tipping up made the matter worse. Luckily it was a quiet day in the shop and they got right on it for me. I paid my dues, listened to their lecture, learned my lesson and brought home the rerebuilt diff. Another course completed in the college of hard knocks.

Thank you all again for your insight and help in this matter.