When Credit is Due!

I've gotten credit for work I did not do. Others have gotten credit for work I did do. I've come to the realization that it happens as often as not. Try to understand that reporters and writers have deadlines and they dont travel with research teams. That's life.

 

Back in the late 50's my Dad sold his 52 Mercury that he did all the work on himself, the car sold around town afew times, My Dad see's the car in a parking lot and goes over to check it out. The new owner, a kid starts to tell my Dad about how he had built the car himself etc, etc. My Dad tells him thats funny I built a car just like this, Do the door poppers still work? What door poppers? My Dad reaches down to a Buick port hole he had put in the lower rocker panel pushes a button inside it. "POP" door opens, the kid didn't even know the button was there. Dad just walked away saying, "Nice car". !!!

 

Sorry you got shafted on the story bout the Buick. I like it, color, detail work, stance, all good. Except for the fucked up bullcrap in the engine bay. Damn Chevy motor because it'll "talk to the computer."

That's gay. The fact you got boned on it is more gay.

 

Hey Steve,I know exactly how you feel on this one,Its happened to me a number of times in the past and I cant explain the frustration that one feels in this situation.Rest assured your talents will be recognised by those that matter,You have a great reputation and a well deserved one at that.

 

Steve been there done and starred in the movie(s). Just start taking pics of everything you do and keep scrap books. Build your catalog. In fact you couls start with what you have posted previously .

The books provide as well for your future customers ideas of what you can do and have done.

You do awesome work keep the head up and move on.

 

Steve,

I know what it is like. I am in the Architectural sign fabrication business. Had a young guy come in looking for sub work and showed me his portfolio which had a few photos of signs I built and installed. I asked him to let me see the book, when he slid it across my desk I took out the photos of my work and gave him his portfolio back.

He got a bit upset that I would take his book apart, but I explained that our industry is to small to be claiming to have done other peoples work and that because he was dishonest in our very first meeting, we would never work together. I then told him to get out and to go "earn" his own "good" reputation cause so far he was only earning a bad one.

The car building industry is also to small for people to get far with false claims on who did the work....it will soon come back to make them look bad. In fact, I think the car building/fab busines is tighter knit than the industry I'm in and as such people will know who did what in pretty short order. The world has become very small with the internet and the speed that information gets out.

I own a few cars and actually go out of my way to give the credit to those that did the work. I honor the those that own small companies and how hard it is to make it work and keep a good reputation and happy customers, etc.


Good thread. Keep up the good work.............

John

 

Steve, I don't know you, but I can relate to you're situation. I've been a free lance builder for many years and I'm sure you've never heard of me.
I was in Houston in the 70's and just had a custom do good at the Autorama. A local Car collector hunted me down in my backyard workshop and wanted me to work on his cars because he liked what he saw at the show. Long story short, He told me it didn't matter if I never moved out of my back yard or tried to make a big name for myself. He said to keep doing the kind of work I was doing at a fair but good price and I would never run out of work, the work will sell itself and clients will hunt you down just like he did. He was right. I live in the middle of nowhere, still in my backyard, I still don't advertise and I won't live long enough to get all the cars built that people want me to do. But I still have the passion for special cars now as I did growing up in the 50's. If you get big and famous it won't be you building cars.It'll be your help. Good luck with that.

 

I have had my 40 Tudor since 1989.
People say
"Hey your car looks like Shit!"
I say
Screw You I do all my own work."

 

Been there too Steve...on pretty much any car I have built and sold...I guess the only way to keep it straight is to build something way cool and keep it forever...but I can't do that. Of course I don't make my living at building cars so it makes a difference.

 

The cabinets in my shop at home are wallpapered with magazines that have cars that I have helped build (total builds, from rust to final paint, not partial). My mom sends me the magazines, they always seem to be sold out locally. In all of those magazines, and there are a bunch, my name is never mentioned. Josh (an excellent photographer) managed to somehow sneak a picture of me in the August issue of Street Rod Builder, where Don Smith's 32 sedan delivery made the cover. If Don's 32 isn't H.A.M.B. to the bone, then I guess I need new glasses. This car belongs in a museum, but it's so much fun to drive. I hope Don wears it completely out.

This brings me to my point. As a somewhat notorious builder, I like to see the cars and the owners be the stars in the show. Hell, without the owner and his or her dream car, I would be an unemployed wino picking up aluminum cans on the freeway. Magazine writers always get a detail or two or ninety wrong. They ask questions, write notes then travel off to some faraway place and try to meet a deadline. I have no doubt they wake up with jet lag and bloodshot eyes more often than the rest of us ever will. Anyway, they are human beings and none of us are perfect, so I don't worry about magazine mistakes. To be honest, all of us at Hot Rods by JSK get a pretty good laugh from most of them.

We built a super nice car for a guy (whom neither him nor his car shall receive any credit here) once upon a time and his car wound up on the cover of Super Chevy Magazine. In that magazine article, it appears he hand built the entire car from scratch, I don't even think GM had anything to do with it after he finished it. We did the total build from shit to shinola. It was a '69 muscle car with lots of hot rod tricks, not H.A.M.B. material at all, but relevant to this topic due to him deliberately misleading the staff at Super Chevy and not giving us credit for what we did. We made him famous, we made his car famous and Super Chevy obviously thought putting the car on the cover would generate them some folding money as well. All it wound up doing was making everybody not like each other over a bunch of silly stupid crap. It was completely unnecessary. The funny part is, whenever I see him at a car show, he introduces me to his buddies as "Hey, this is one of the guys that built my car" and I always smile and say "nah...I didn't really do anything to this car."

 

That sucks.
My '32 5W is being built as a collaboration between myself, and Ron Gagnon of
New England Rod Shop. I had this design in my head, and Ron is a Master Craftsman.
I wish I had his talent, but I don't, and I feel very fortunate to be working with him.
The car's turning out awesome, and when it's done he'll get the credit.
that being said, i work in a business restoring antique cars that gets a fair amount
of press. I can't tell you the amount of times I've been interviewed, and what came
out in print was nowhere near what I said. I wouldn't be so quick to slam the owner or
shop without knowing what was originally said. They have no input on what is written.

 

It happened to me, I was very fucking upset about it, but I got over it, the fella ended up outing himself as a phony. It just happened to good friend of mine who's a pro builder. I don't know how anyone can expect to get away with it, especially in a small city like Orlando.

 

very very good,,

 

I feel for you dude. Call the person on it. In fact, call the person on it BEFORE bringing it on here. Either way the truth should be known, but the people involved should get first news of your displeasure in the situation.

When it happens to me, I always think it's because I'm ugly, bald and ugly! (oops, tangent)

Anyway, your name, is your business, like mine is! You've got to let the people involved know you didn't dig on that. Sometimes it's unintentional, so it's up to you to decide whether or not to give the parties involved the benefit of the doubt.

 

Hey, I thought Buick built that car but I could be wrong.

Anyway, typically, the last shop to do any work on a car is the one that takes the credit for the build. But in the end it IS the owner that either builds it, assembles it, or flips the bill for it so in reality they did the work. BUT, someone taking credit for something they specifically didn't do is wrong. I wouldn't worry though, there aren't too many people out there that can match your craftsmanship. Nice job.

 

Thanks Steve.

Strange thing, right after I wrote what I said to you, I pick up November '08 R&C and stroll on into the reading room and right there on pages 26-29 is the very Buick of this discussion. I found myself inadvertently focusing on the parts you mentioned having worked on as being the most visually interesting parts of the car. The quality of your craftsmanship is self-evident. I know when something is tricked out because it starts to look clean and slick. Most people have no freaking idea how much work it takes to make something look clean and slick, but it is just right when the average Joe thinks to himself "I could do that". I like it when people look at an engine and think it must be some kind of fake because it does not seem to have enough hoses, wires or crap bolted onto it to make it run. That's the perfect time to start it and drive off.

These are things I see and admire in your work Steve. Been there, done it and know what it takes. You put your heart into your work and that gives the car a soul. People who know you can probably spot your work a 1/4 mile away. It's because your work makes the car glow.

However, it is inevitable in our business that the car usually belongs to somebody else. It is inevitable that the magazines will rattle off every name brand part used on the car and almost seem to omit the zillions of hand fabricated do-dads that actually make it all work together in seamless fashion, or the guy that managed to engineer them well enough to get the car in the lime lights. But that is a mixed blessing you see, there are plenty of folks who DO understand what you do. They have a deep appreciation for all of your skills and talent. Oppositely, there are purists out there that will look at what you did and think you ruined a perfectly good whatever it was before 3 beers and a plasma cutter made it fit exactly where it really wanted to be. As long as you are building someone else's dream, it's not such a bad thing if you are the one who has the talent and vision to bring it to life, then get left behind the stage when the show begins. We are, after all, the celebrity makers. Let the dude with the deep pockets be the movie star.

Have you ever been to a car museum/exhibit and found yourself wondering something like "Gee, that sure is a nice fan shroud, I wonder who made that fan shroud?"

Probably not. Most guys with talent will spend time admiring how it was made, not wondering who made it. It's the guy who want's one, can't make one and is willing to pay good money to have one that will seek people like us out. We need people with the gift of low skill levels and high income to debt ratios to fund our gift... talent.

The reward? The reward is when the folks that are your heroes admire your work, or when some little kid comes running across an entire show floor like he got stuck in a tractor beam straight to a car you helped build, then just looks at it and from across the room you can read his lips "dude...awesome!" (At which point the little fucker usually sneezes on the car, looks around for something to wipe his hands on, then leaves).

 

Your a 100% percent right bro, i never shown my work before,, never cared for spotlight,, rather stand in the shadow and watch from a far as others admire, Yes it is my love and passion in life. My goal is TO STOKE the customer out,, to bring his dream to reality, as my biz cards say Vision to Reality, Design to Function. Never been in it for the money my bills paid im happy. I guess its more, just were credity is due on certian things, al lthat metal work,, Vise grips, some Dolleys,, and hammers,, no shrinkers beed rollers, just your basic hand tools, When i read stories i think its rad how shops,, or customers will give the smalliest credit to one,, enbe if its for a braket or nerf bar,, its a good feeling deep down being reconoized. Every shop i every worked for has taken credit right in front of me,, i have walked out of places just for tha t,, WHY LIE TO IMPRESS ones in life.. i dont get it.. when it comes from your heart and the love you puit into a car for 2 years,, its hard to swallow,

 

I've lost friends, working relationships with shops and good business because of what you're talking about since day one. Mis-prints, omitions or out and out lies abound in every creative aspect of every culture.

If you notice, the guys who stomp and yell the loudest usually get noticed first. How does a guy get credit for his work without beating everyone over the head with his dick?

All I can offer is this...

Put everything you've ever done on your site. Tell your side of it and make sure the facts are straight. Build the best !@#$ you can and stay focused. There are plenty of folks out there that will diminish your contributions to make themselves look important.

Woopty doo.

You're a badass, talented mofo but it takes more than that today. You can't get 2 black and white pages in Hot rod and become a legend for the rest of your life anymore. Careers take MAINTENANCE. You have to follow up on every detail and make sure you get credit, build relationships with the media (not for shmoozing, but for familiarity) that way when some yahoo tries to steal credit from you, maybe the guy writing the story will know better. There are a thousand other constructive steps to take but frankly, I didn't learn them until last week!

I guess the short answer is this...If all you want to do is stand off to the side and be "the power behind the thrown" then okay, that's what you'll be. Nobody is going to give you much if you leave it up to them.

Respectfully...

 

I feel for you but......

The bottom line is that you/your shop was subcontracted by another shop to perform specific tasks on a specific job. You executed wonderfully, you were compensated for your work and you moved on. Its simple business. You did not "build" the car. The shop that was contracted by the owner worked with its subcontractors to build the car. You did well, I'm sure you'll be contacted to do more work directly from that shop and others who know/heard you did much of the work on the car.


Your running a fine line between being a subcontractor for that shop and a competetor.....you may not want to bite the hand that feeds you.....just yet, anyway. Its a fuzzy line and egos and emotions make it even more of a blur. Your work speaks for itself. The smart money lays on keeping your ego in check, your mouth on 'low' and collect money from the shop(s) that feed you *and* the customers that are 'in the know'.

My buddy has an engine shop and he subcontracts some specific work out to other local shops and we also do work for them. Sometimes we get 're-work' due to problems caused by the other shops, we just keep tight lips and fix the issues and usually gain a customer. Sometimes motors from these other 'high end' shops have our heads on their race winning motors.....again, we keep our mouths shut and collect the money. Yeah, its sometimes not so great not getting recognition when you hear this or that guy won with so and so's motors knowing darn well that your time and efforts was a major contribution to the project....but everybody still knows who did what (or eventually it all comes full circle) and at the end of the day you still got paid for doing your craft. And THATS what it comes down to more times than not these days when you actually need the money.

Good luck, keep up the great work!

-Bigchief.

 

In 1975 I painted my brothers 40 sedan black with flames. He did most of the prep work and helped me mask it and get it in the booth, I painted, color sanded and polished it. He masked off his flames and I sprayed/blended them out, cleared 'em. The job was a collaboration between the two of us... one born of necessity on his part 'cause he didn't even know how to paint (he still don't).
No money involved, just an effort to help him get his car ready for the local car show. I can't remember for sure, but at the time I had an "in" with RM, so the paint and materials MIGHT have come to him for free.....
On his show card under "body, paint, and graphics" it said "by owner"...

I asked him about it and his reply was, simply..."Oh yeah, I forgot".

Anybody can screw ya...... and presented with the opportunity, most of 'em will.

I no longer sign my name to any paint or graphics/pinstriping... In fact I usually tell 'em to not mention my name at all, just pay me.

Sorry to hear about your hassles, but, like most guys are saying, your work will always speak for itself.

Rich

 

This kinda shit happens all the time with talented artist..
I worked for a shop that had me turn a GMC Denali into a full show truck
I did the all the lay out of the flames , picked out the colors, did body, paint, metal shaping work, all kinds of trick custom details.. after a month when the truck was close to getting done, they let me go for sum bullshit reason.. anyway I was out of there lame ass shop, so the truck went on to carshows and got fist place everywhere it went , and got featured in several different magazines, it was a huge major hit BUT NOT ONE MENTION of my name in anything anywhere!!! WTF!! dude, that was like a slap in the face... but I always get the last laugh when they try to match what I did,,,,HA, they cant even get close!!!

I can also understand that sometime's someone gets missed in the print and it's not the editers fault ,BUT the Frickin owner of the car knows who was a big player in making a car come to life and you half to give the artist Credit or The owners of the car and the shop will look like idiots because of forums like the hamb will spreed the word on who did!!!!!

!Eye YA yeye!!!gunshots!!
Notch

 

Yeah.... I ´ve got the same problem here.
I am doing ¨ALL THE WORK¨ on..... Mexican Merc 50, here on the HAMB.
same shit different place!!!!.
I have always believed...... Give credit where its due!!!!!!!!

 

Welcome to the world of building cars for a living.

 

Sellers, you are one of the MANY folks on here with major talent and anyone who denies it has a problem.
Here's the deal, in my humble view; if you want to stay in the shadows (your words) instead of being loud and in the spotlight.. it's a part of the price that you pay.
I deal with it all of the time in my job of an IT instructor at a community college that does plenty of innovative work (long rant deleted. You're welcome. ). It was my decision to not be in the limelight and deal with all the hassles and pressures that go with it.
The people who REALLY matter to me know what's going on. So, I have to keep reminding myself that I'm in this because I have a passion for it, not because I want the attention. My students (generally ) love me. We have a great rapport and I know that If I was stranded on the road and one of them drove by.. they'd stop and offer help. That means a lot to me.
So.. pick your battles, sleep better at night and know that you have something they don't have. Integrity.
Does it still hurt? Hell ya! Is it nice when I get to say, "well, I actually did that"? Oh ya. But take their money, smile and say, "Thank you", when you shake their hand.. hard.
Or, get loud and bold and step out of the shadows.
Those who can.. do. Those who can't.. teach. Those who can't even teach.. take the credit for the work of others. I just made up that last line, but you can use it, why not. Hell take credit for it if you want!
It's the way of the world.
Keep doing the fantastic work that you do.

 

This thread has a looooooong way too go before that claim can be made.

Steve did some amazing work on that car but as a lot of builders can tell you their work gets lost in the shuffle once the owner puts pen to paper to fill out tech sheets.

 

Unfortunately taking credit for someone else's work seems to be universal and not just in the automotive field.

I've got one buddy here in the pnw who used to be pretty good at deflating the ego of someone who laid claim to building a car that he had recently purchased instead of giving credit where credit is due. "Hey look, there's Bill's old car and it looks just the same as when he sold it three years ago!"

There probably isn't a fix for it because there will always be someone come along who lets his ego overload common sense in this department.

Then again, there is the other side of the spectrum where some folks seem to delight in name dropping about who did what.

Yep, I've got a _________ built engine, frame by _____________ and __________ set up the Quck change, see those marks, that means the case is one of the original California ones and not one of the new ones.

Boy howdy I just wish I was able to be able to hire out anything on my truck instead of doing almost everything here or at my buddys place.

 

This is a world wide problem.

Well, at least for the people involved that rely on prior quality work to help generate ongoing jobs.

I have 30 odd years in the industry, dealing in a vast variety of feilds.
And it cuts deep when after putting so much of your self into a build, and at times saving the job after the owner has stalled because of lack of direction or deviststed by bad work by a previous shop.

One point that gets me is what people think you were paid to do the work. If I was paid what people think I am I would not give a rats
I know a few guys that have helped the owner out, cost wise. But that is never mentioned.

I have a web site that will be up and running soon. And I am going to get the upmost satisfaction by posting build shots and more, of cars I have had a hand in and never recieved a mention.

What a lot of people fail to understand, is that clever and talented tradesmen can make better and more consistant money doing every day work.

I have reciently built a Rod for an owner that has done very well in Australia. It now finishes off a list.

Of award winning restorations
Custom and now a Hot Rod.

In the big picture what do you do next? repeat what you have previously done.

My mates have been on my back to build something for myself, then no one can claim credit for the work performed. Apart from those that you do mention. And I make it a point to do that where ever I can

As one person can not totally build any project, there is always help needed from someone who is specalised in an are you are not

 

Not only that man, but it may be years down the road, the threads would likely read....found another one of sellers creations.....I like this one or I would like to have that one....Fact is you do have allot of credit from the people who know and follow you, and from people who's opinions are more credible themselves. Your reputation you have is what the difference will always be. If you cast pearls before swine, triple your price, they will be happy to tell people how much they had to pay you. Even though thats not your game, you can laugh with satisfaction.

 

Seems that way all over the place . I've only worked at one shop that I got credit for doing anything. I guess that's just the way it is.