When new parts go old school. . .

So i took off thursday and Friday so my wife and i can get some things done on the family side if life, (going throught the adoption process for them that might really wanna know.) and after we trudge back home in bumper to bumper traffic for over and hour an a half on a trip that should take no more than 35 minutes get back home, shovel the driveway so the lady can park her vee-hickle.

i get to messin with my project bike i bought off Choprods last month so i at least have something halfway cool to ride this summer. the neighbor to the east of me comes wandering in half piss tight as usual and starts askin 50 questions. worse than a three year old on crack.

anyhow, he points to the brake master/booster i have resting against the firewall an asks if they had power brakes in '54. . .

"nope, but mines gonna"

"but i thought you wanted a traditional car?"

"yup, i do and im gonna have one"

"but that aint traditional"

this is the point where i normally make a snide comment sounding much like "you wouldnt know traditional if it dry ****ed your *** for an hour with a rusty axe" but i bit my tongue and told him i was doing it for safety reasons, and had no intention of running a single line manual system.

but it got me to thinking, "jeez,,, am i screwing up bolting this kinda stuff on my car???" and thats i guess what really cheezed my cracker.

From my line of thinking, "traditional" builders back in the day took what they had available, could afford, or could build. then bent it, hammered it, and bolted or welded it on to make thier car.

they took engines from a 50 merc and slapped em into T's, molded '59 caddy tail lights onto anything that would hold still long enough, and adapted carbs and intakes to fit motors NEVER intended for them.

i guess i just wanted to vent a little and let off the steam that was pouring from my ears last night.

to me, "ol skool" isnt a set of rules. it isnt a standard, its more of a feeling.
to me, old school is doing it yourself, and having a damn good time building it, dreaming about it, and actually driving it.

who the hell cares if you have an edelbrock crate motor in your shoebox. does it matter to you if someone does care?
screw em if they dont like it. they didnt build it, and they sure as hell wont be driving it either.


sorry, rant mode off, and thanks for watching me have a meltdown.

T.

 

my thoughts, exactly.

That's the funniest thing I have ever read...

 

Boy it is early in the morning for this, but I must agree with you, who gives a rat *** what YOU or I drive as long as we are happy and built or at least participated in the build. Most gold chainers don't understand us. They do it for the status symbol, we do it because we love it. Gettin dirty up to your elbows in grease must be love. All those early morning jaunts to the swap meets must be love. Enough said.

 

I build stuff to particular years and stick to whats around during that time... and to me its building a period car...

so if your putting a 2005 booster in I would say thats not period if... you were building it to say 1962 "era"--

I wanted a early cad motor in my shoebox, and was so picky that I would rather run a stock cad trans than a new style adapter to a new style ******...
I was lucky enought to find the flywheel and cragar adapter to bolt to the stock for trans... but to me all these details make it PERIOD.
there wont be one thing bolted to that car that wouldnt have been done in 64 or under...

this trad thing is a can-o-worms topic.

I get very picky about what I put into my rides so they have specific look and feel... from everything to the brakes to the interior... but thats ME.

I dont give a **** what you think about it either... as you can say to anyone after installing your modern brake booster...

I've been running around with my shoebox for years with stock brakes and guess what? they work perfect... I havent been in any accidents either.

I just think people jump on this safety bandwagon and go overboard with it...

there you made me VENT. haha. this didnt have much to do with what you posted... I just think theres a difference between trad and period.


Tuck

 

Fiddy, Build it safe and build what you want, first and foremost. I have a nineteen year old son you can adopt if you want to skip the younger stages. Good kid with lots of projects, just can't get him to focus on anything for any length of time. Too busy chasing girls, wait I was like that. Although I got alot more done on my cars at that age. Or whip out the rusty axe and the neighbor won't bother you anymore.

 

Build the car the way you want it,,,,,,,I for one side on the better brakes,,,you have your wife, yourself and a future child to think about!

A fruit jar master cylinder like the car came with was a giant step in the right direction considering they evolved from the earlier 20's and 30's mechanical brakes,,,,,,,,,,,,,

The double master cylinder insures you that if for some reason one part of your brakes fail you can at least stop before you hit something or someone!

BTW,,,ya know i'm in the building stage of a 54,,,,,,what are you using for your master cylinder/booster? HRP

PS,,,Your neighbor is an IDIOT,,,and his brother lives next door to me!

 

Sounds like you had second thoughts.
Here's something to think about you might not have.
Since you built the thing and don't have to pay someone to work on it,
how much does it really matter?
How bad can you really "screw it up"?

I mean, tomorrow, next month, or ten years from now you can change anything on the car that you want!
You do have the option to change your mind, yes?

regards,
Doug

 

Sometimes with saftey stuff old school dont mean its right.How many guys back in the day with A's switched the mechanical brakes to juice brakes.They did this because of preformance and they were safer.
Short story for you.I have a all orig 66 Dart GT convert.One fine day me,my wife and 2 yr old daughter are cruisin down a 2 lane highway when some *** bag p***es me then cuts back over in front of me slams his brakes on and decides to turn rt.So I locked it down and all of sudden the brake pedal goes to floor.Now let me tell you I was gonna need a crow bar to get my underwear out of my ***.This is a feeling like no other feeling when you got no BRAKES.
Well I took to the left lane to miss said *** bag,thank God nothing was coming head on or it would have been bad.I limped it to the side and found that when I locked it down that a rear wheel cly blew out.Car had a single master cly so I pinched line off and drove home with 3 brakes.Now the car has been updated to frt duster disc brakes and a dual master cly.Cant see the disc unless your laying under the car and thats hard to do cause its always rollin down the road.And most people if they look under the hood dont know it did not come with a dual master cly.
So my moral of the story is I love traditional stuff but when it comes to the saftey of my family some times you have to compromise the look for functionality.I dont think anybody would fault you for that and if they did f*&k Them. Sorry about going on
Later Shoe

 

HRP:

the booster i am going to use is out of a '82 explorer sport, but i suspect just about any ranger/explorer/mazda pickup of that time would be about the same.

its on the smaller side, and the bolts are VERY close to a direct match.

i might have to fill and redrill the bottom two bolt holes, but not by much. the pedal position will be about the same, and the pushrod is the same length as the stock one. from all i can see so far, i might not have to fabricate anything to mount this in, just maybe do a little heat and bend style persuasion.

 

That say's it all right there.

Trad is putting the best parts they could afford that were available. You can't tell me that if there were crate caddy motor's available in the 60's people wouldn't be buying them. Not every one but some.

Period is a snap shot in time.
Both kick ***. we are splitting hairs here. Build what you want as safe as you want. Just don't be one of those jack***es running spindle rims his g***er around town.

 

Sorry Joey your car aint Traditional with that mustang radiator in it.I cant believe you fell for that line from the guy sellin them that it was traditional. LOL (insert secret hand shake here)

Later Shoe

 

yea, i did. for all of a second. and thats what pissed me off so much that an **** jockey like him could actually get me second guessing myself. look, i like old parts. old parts are sometimes better, but not always.

old castings are heavier and stronger in some cases, single line hydrolic brake systems arent.

i have changed my mind a hundred times on **** like paint, seatcovers, dash and gauges, chop it or leave it, drop it or jack the *** in the air and call it a day... but as far as safety and reliability, no. i have not... untill last night.

i have a pertronix ignition and i ditched the points. why? cause i dont wanna be sitting out on some parking lot at midnight with a flashlight and a set of points trying to get the thing running. i'm going to toss the generator also and fab up a bracket for an alternator so i dont have to worry about that.

yea, i kept the liner six that was in it. why? cause the thing grew on me, and to be honest, i think that three gl*** bowl 1904 holleys are gonna look sweet as hell sittin atop of a vintage offy intake in there

lets face it, if i wanted to simply go fast and look "cool" i'd go the streetrodder magazine route and "build" a mail order car. ROFL

 

This has been my position all along..."traditional" is the mindset not the hardware. If all the traditional builders "back in the day" were building traditional hardware, then the traditional guys today would be building flamed horsedrawn buckboards with www wooden spoke wheels. Hotrodders have always driven the performance market...for anyone in the automotive business or for those who just like to follow the trends, take a look at GMPP or any other of the major manufacturers who are now offering a complete line of performance parts...many of which can be ordered installed on a new vehicle.
If the part makes your car go faster, stop better, or just looks cooler...go for it!

 

Sorry Fiddy Four, I'm with Tuck-n-cover on this one. But it's just the way I like to build'um. Newer windshield wiper motors work like something sent from the gods, but you won't see one on my shoebox. The vacuum motor worked just fine in '50, repaired correctly, it will work just fine now too. To me, there's an added "cool factor" to running the old components. But you do what you want to, and stand behind it. It's your car.

 

My saying goes like this...." If you don't like my car.....walk."

 

Old School, traditional, period, choppers, bobbers, even goldchainers-- anyone have a dictionary to keep up with all of the definitions? I've been doing this since the 60's and couldn't give you a definition for all of this, even if I cared and wanted too.
Hot rods are a pretty small segment of the car world and the car world is a pretty small segment of the "real world". It gets even smaller when you start dividing hot rod folks into each subdivision. Around here here most of the folks that are into cars and bikes get along pretty well. For the most part we're coming from the same place. I think I cl***ify folks by how they act, not what they drive. On one end there's good people and on the other end theres a**holes and everything in between.
Build your car the way YOU want and if someone comes around and badmouths it, it's probably because he's an a**hole. I don't care if he's a traditionalist or goldchainer. Pick the people you run with because of who they are, not what they drive.
Sorry, off topic rant over. Time for me to get off the computer and go do something useful.

 

You gotta find some WHALE OIL based ATF to put in your powerglide too!

Even ****-retentive restorer's overlook, or ignore dual brake M/Cs just because of the safety issue.
(I don't want to get into the "If your system is properly maintained" issue. I worked in new car service and warranty repairs on new cars too long to trust off the shelf new parts.)
Ask Jerry about new brake parts!)

 

This ain't 1954 when none of the cars had exciting brakes.Today we have cars that will jam your shorts right up your bung hole when you pound on the brakes like so many idiots do today. I built my cars to be driven hard, but I want to be able to stop just as hard, and safely. If you are building a politically correct traditional car, chances are it won't be driven every day to and from work in rush hour traffic, in which case you could get away with well tuned drum brakes and single master cylinder. But I can tell you this, in Phoenix traffic at 5:00 even the brakes on my S-10 get hot and fade. Chances are also good you won't be going to a "judged" show where you are going to loose points for incorrect brakes. Build it the way you are going to use it, and go with your own plan instead of second guessing yourself.

 

Yea yea I've herd it a hunnert times.
Sorry I just wanted to say that and you were available.
Here's my take on it. Hot Rods are supposed to be stockers improved, made faster, or to handle better, look better etc. etc. etc.
So friend, let 'em all take an aeronautical *********** at a tumbling piece of pastry. You improve it as much as you want to.

 

Late model power brakes on your 54 ford isn't traditional.

Theres nothing wrong with that, it probably is a good idea, but its not traditional.


No one is going to look down at it. It will be safe and you'll be happy......

BUT, don't pretened it is traditional.


If you wanted traditional power brakes..... adapt some from a car from the era you are going after.... Caddys had power brakes, so did Lincolns.....

But you still would have a single master.


True period/ traditional cars use no new aftermarket or late model parts. Only parts form the era it was trying to replicate.

That is a hard thing to acomplish.



It is true that Hot Rods used the best, most cutting edge parts available in the old days........ They still do, only today the cutting edge cars are cars like what Boyd builds.

Boyd type cars follow the basic tradition of putting a big engine in an early style body etc.... only they use as many modern parts as they can. Just like the guys did in the old days.




The idea of building traditional cars is to work within the limitations of another era.

Some will say it is like a restoration, but I disagree. It takes more imagination, to be creative within limitations.


Compromises are made for safety, parts availability, cost, etc.....

But as I have said before...... the coolest cars have the least amount of compromise.

 

Yahoo Shoe,
Not authentically period perfect, but fits my budget. I'll put water and alcohol in it. (secret handshake right back at ya)

 

Another way to look at it. What kind of equipment would you choose at the moment an 18 wheeler jackknifes in front of you on a dark rainslicked 2 lane twisty, hilly highway iin the middle of the night with oncomming traffic less than a block away. Oh yea, you've got your wife and kids with you just to make your decision interesting. There's no time to change anything in this scenerio, you live (or die) with the choices you already made.

Frank

 

my brother's (merc-o-madness) 54 merc has stock power brakes..even though he claims they feel the same as manual brakes but thats just because his booster needs to be rebuilt and im pretty sure his va***e resiorvior isnt air tight

 

Think of how badly screwed up your car will be if your only MC takes a ****.

The whole debate hardly matters, build what you like and stay safe so you can be around to build another and share the p***ion with the young'n one day. I wish I had a parent who was into this stuff.

 

exactly
yup,,viewer discretion advised..

there's no set rules,,follow your heart,,if you have to explain it ,then you need to realize they are a different critter and explain to them you p***ion without trying to be a college professor or talking down to them,,,people ask questions be cause they dont know and are usually interested,,dont get mad at them because they dont think the way you do...

..with that said,,it just depends on what your building...if your building a full fendered or 50's car then i dont see any problem with disc brakes or blah blah blah,,,but thats me,,im not gonna buy no ****in KIT though...if your doing something fenderless and hoodless,,then i would try my best to be spot on period,,but sometimes we have to make comprimises...

**** it,,hahaha, do what you feel is best!

 

..ok,,i remember why i posted to this thread...its what my uncle always says...

..." they used to drive them cross country & back in the 30's 40's and 50's,,if it was good enough to get them there and back its good enough for us"

later,
sam

 

To my way of looking at it, the stuff used traditionally was the best stuff available. Power with 2 stage mastercylinders might not have been around yet, but IF they had that is what people would have probably been using. At least yours is properly scrounged instead of storebought. The one conversion I have done was on a later model, but I sized the master cylinder accordingly and stayed manual, they still work fantastic. I agree with the people who are saying if you want period correct use period stuff to a point, but where safety is concerned I believe in cutting no corners. Most of my cars didn't start out with seat belts, doesn't mean I'm not going to add them. Eventually...

For a weekend cruiser for mostly around town I would maybe stay stock. If I plan to drive the piss out of it, including in the rain, it gets discs. I have no plans to stick with bias plys just because they were what was being used. On the other hand I wouldn't be caught dead with billet anything....

Just my .02,

Randy

 

You can't please everybody; so just please yourself. Just build it so it's safe so you will enjoy it and have fun with it. Life's too short to worry about what everyone else's opinion of your car/work mite be. Build your car so YOU are comfortable with it, good luck with your project.

 

Just for the record, some early cars were built with vacuum boosters that still had mechanical brakes. The vacuum servo ***isted pushing/pulling the brake rods or cables. (Bugatti's had cable brakes, those get pulled because the don't work too good on the push..)

I figure if something was made, by any manufacturer, anywhere, during an era, it could have been and can be used on a "correct" era car.

(Traditional Pertronics?)