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where do i look for cracks in flatty block?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by snortonnorton, Jun 9, 2006.

  1. snortonnorton
    Joined: Sep 18, 2004
    Posts: 889

    snortonnorton
    Member
    from Florida

    I was reading the great posts on flatheads and I found one for 200.00 dollars as well, (but not a mercury with 4inch crank) it's a 59A i believe.

    Anyways, i read how you guys state it's not worth it if they have a crack in the block so where should i expect to find a crack? I want to thoroughly check it before i buy. any particular place they usually show up?

    the flathead is complete with everything on it so that's why i'm asking since it might be hard to see block.

    ***Ryan or other admins, do you think we should have a section on flathead posts? it seems like there are alot of them now and we wouldn't flood the regular thread section with our flathead questions......***
     
  2. chrisntx
    Joined: Jan 20, 2006
    Posts: 1,799

    chrisntx
    Member
    from Texas .

    they crack between the valve seat and the bore. You will want to pull the heads
     
  3. Like chrisntx said, between the seat and the bore. Usually the exhaust seat and the bore. You can find it with the naked eye, no special tools needed. They can be repaired, but it's rather time consuming. Most guys just go out and find another block. But, it can be done.
     
  4. Flatman
    Joined: Dec 20, 2005
    Posts: 1,975

    Flatman
    Member

    I've found small cracks between the bolt holes for the heads and the water passages. I also had a lonnnng crack on the water pump mounting surface for the right pump, caused from a feeze up (no doubt from the cold, Canadian winter:D ) High nickel welding rods fixed up the big one!

    Flatman

    We can never have enough flathead questions....
     
  5. snortonnorton
    Joined: Sep 18, 2004
    Posts: 889

    snortonnorton
    Member
    from Florida

    ok, thanks guys.

    what size tools/sockets do i need to bring if i want to pull the heads and check for cracks between valve seats and bores...

    thanks again,
     
  6. tommy
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 14,757

    tommy
    Member Emeritus

    I've seen a couple of 8BA blocks crack right above the pan rail down low. Both on the inside and the out side.
     
  7. jetmek
    Joined: Jan 12, 2006
    Posts: 1,847

    jetmek
    Member

    11/16 1/2 drive socket and extension, assortment of large flat screwsticks or chisel and hammer to pry head off, wire brush . dont let cracks from water passage to stud scare you off most have em and its no problem to run without repair.
     
  8. Most of them do have cracks between the bolt holes/water passages. Thats no huge deal. Use studs to get proper torque on final assy. Use NON HARDENING sealer (permatex) on those holes too. Don't forget to check oil pan mating surface on block as well for cracks. Rare to find a crack there but I've pitched a couple for it. A badun down there will ruin your life (and driveway)
     
  9. 31ACoupe
    Joined: Nov 14, 2005
    Posts: 1,416

    31ACoupe
    Member

    ditto all the rest. I would not want to pay over $25-50 for a block that hasn't been magnafluxed, just too much risk. check in the crankcase area too, where the water jacket goes along the pan rail and between the webs. If you already bought it have it hot tanked and magnafluxed after a good visual inspection. Also, it is risky building one without a tear down and flux, been there-done that...it can be expensive. There are a couple good companies that sell kits and provide t/a for pinning and welding major cracks. Like the other guys said don't worry about the small cracks between the bolt holes and valves (unless it goes into the valve head area). If your $200 block is sound then you got a real good deal imho, blocks are running around $400+ in most places.

    good luck, flatties rule.....

    31acoupe:cool:
     
  10. Take it to a engine shop, have it boiled and maganfluxed.

    I do this to every block I buy
     
  11. Jim Marlett
    Joined: Aug 12, 2003
    Posts: 869

    Jim Marlett
    Member

    Bolt hole to the valve? That would be a monster crack and one I wouldn't accept as no worry. Do you mean between a bolt hole and water jacket?

    Many flatheads have cracks. Most can be patched. Some can't. Most cracks between the valve seat and cylinder wall can be fixed if you can find the ends. It's just a matter of how much you want to invest. One or two cracks in that area can usually be fixed economically. A whole bunch start driving the cost up. Cracks along the pan rail are usually caused from freezing and are considered fatal by most people. I've never seen a crack in the main bearing web, but those are considered fatal also. I would have to have a guarantee that it would pass magnaflux before I would pay $200 for a flathead core engine unless it had a 4" Mercury crank. I guess price is a local thing and largely based on luck. I've paid between $200 (Merc crank surrounded by a severely cracked block) to $0 (sound block with Ford crank).
     
  12. 32chevysedan
    Joined: Jun 11, 2006
    Posts: 377

    32chevysedan
    Member
    from Texas

    I have found a flathead that is a 27 stud instead of a 24 stud, can anyone give any info over these. thanks
     
  13. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,681

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    You also should take wire brushes, spray brake cleaner, and a flashlight to examine area between valves and bore.
    A heavy freeze cracks blocks along the pan rail.
    Tell seller flathead blocks with heads on are worth zip, heads and pan off and visually examined worth some, and magnafluxed worth a lot...
    An engine coming out of a complete car (with Hood!) is a pretty good gamble, one that's been dumped outside for 10 years will likely be scrap...
    One that will rotate is very much likelier to have had a protected storage than one that's totally stuck.
    Also, inner parts are always an interesting crapshoot--so many parts have been interchanged over the years that speed goodies can turn up anywhere.
    Just keep scraping and muttering stuff like "Izzat ANOTHER one or just a casting line??" and "OH! My LORD!!" until owner despairs...
     
  14. Oilcan Harry
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 906

    Oilcan Harry
    Member
    from INDY

    If there is any chance the block has been a hotrod or race engine in it's past, check the center main bearing web for cracks. Hi RPM and stroker cranks sometimes crack them there. Advice I got from an old and now passed-on Flathead builder.
     
  15. Dale Fairfax
    Joined: Jan 10, 2006
    Posts: 2,585

    Dale Fairfax
    Member Emeritus

    the 27 stud is the 337" Lincoln/F-7/8 Ford truck engine.







     
  16. 32chevysedan
    Joined: Jun 11, 2006
    Posts: 377

    32chevysedan
    Member
    from Texas

    Are these engines any good, can they be hopped up like the 24 stud, and will somestuff interchange. I can buy one of these engines that was said to have run about a year ago for $100, I know the guy good so I know that he would not steer me wrong... I have just started to work on flatheads Ive always been a sbc and bbc man....
     
  17. jetmek
    Joined: Jan 12, 2006
    Posts: 1,847

    jetmek
    Member

    there havebeen several inqueries about the 8el engines here recently. perf parts are practically non existent and they are VERY heavy. unless you like a challenge, id keep lookin...
     
  18. blown49
    Joined: Jul 25, 2004
    Posts: 2,212

    blown49
    Member Emeritus

    What's the status? Did you get the heads off?
     
  19. snortonnorton
    Joined: Sep 18, 2004
    Posts: 889

    snortonnorton
    Member
    from Florida

    Ok, finally got the head off one side (just got the block home last week)

    dirty but no cracks yet, the not so clean holes that look unshapely is because of gasket parts still hanging around hole edges.

    I broke one of the head bolts flush with the block trying to get them all off. do I have to buy an EZ out now? what is the best way to get it out? they were really hard to remove, 3 actually broke, but only one broke flush with the block. Only some of the nuts came off, usually the whole stud/bolt wanted to come out, i tried everything, heat, then more PB blaster, more heat, but the bolts are pretty frozen.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. snortonnorton
    Joined: Sep 18, 2004
    Posts: 889

    snortonnorton
    Member
    from Florida

    here is close up of the broken head bolt, broke flush with the block. I need an EZ out?
    [​IMG]
     
  21. snortonnorton
    Joined: Sep 18, 2004
    Posts: 889

    snortonnorton
    Member
    from Florida

    well, lots of dirt and rusty water jacket parts, florida isn't good on old stuff.
    I'll clean it up and give better pics after i get the other head off too.

    [​IMG]
     
  22. Jim Marlett
    Joined: Aug 12, 2003
    Posts: 869

    Jim Marlett
    Member

    Don't use an easy out unless you want to take on the broken bolt and the broken easy out. Either weld a nut to the stud or weld a washer to the stud and weld a nut to that. The heat will loosen the bolt as well as giving you something to turn it out with. If you are not equipped to do the welding, take it to an automotive machine shop and let them take it out. You need to take it to a machine shop eventually anyhow, so let them get it out (and all the rest of those rusty studs if you don't have a way to do it). It shouldn't cost you a whole lot - far less than after you've boogered it up and still don't have it out.

    Is that a crack on the far left of your picture between the cylinder and valve, or is that just a shadow on some carbon?
     
  23. Jim Marlett
    Joined: Aug 12, 2003
    Posts: 869

    Jim Marlett
    Member

    The crack question was meant for the first picture.
     
  24. snortonnorton
    Joined: Sep 18, 2004
    Posts: 889

    snortonnorton
    Member
    from Florida

    no, it's a large piece of gasket left over creating a shadow, if you look closely you can make out a piece of gasket.......... but i barely cleaned the gasket material away, I'm going to take everything else off of the engine, (its complete so things are in the way, and get the other head off) then clean it up and inspect the oil pan block area as well to make sure there is no cracks, then i can justify taking it in for hot tanking, etc.
     
  25. 31ACoupe
    Joined: Nov 14, 2005
    Posts: 1,416

    31ACoupe
    Member

    I wouldn't try to remove the studs until you have had it hot tanked and then use liberal dose of PB Blaster on each stud 2-3 times, tap the top of each stud with a 4# hammer several times. Then using a stud removal socket (NAPA-Checkers) the studs should come right out, at least most of them. Don't try to force them, use the PB Blaster (and I have heard that in the really stuck ones that candle wax works great) and work them, tapping them and blasting them. If you do break one off and don't have a welder just take them to a good shop, they charged me like $5 to remove several broken ones on one of my factory relieved blocks. It is amazing how some of these old blocks clean up. I had one that sat outside for 35 years and my machinist told me to forget about it but he tanked it for about 2 weeks and it turned out to be very cherry. Good luck and way to go trying to save the old flatty.....

    31acoupe
    george
     
  26. arkiehotrods
    Joined: Mar 9, 2006
    Posts: 6,802

    arkiehotrods
    Member

    Every flathead, rescued from being melted down and sent to China to make cheap junk to sell to the USA, is a good thing.
     
  27. AlbuqF-1
    Joined: Mar 2, 2006
    Posts: 909

    AlbuqF-1
    Member
    from NM

    Amen! But you have to admit, unless the block is good, a used flathead motor is worth little more than scrap value. The crank if clean is worth maybe $50, who buys used cams? Maybe if it has Johnson's or something you could get some more out of it... or clean hot-rod pistons.
     
  28. Jim Marlett
    Joined: Aug 12, 2003
    Posts: 869

    Jim Marlett
    Member

    The place I was looking shouldn't have any gasket material, but the more I look at it, the more it looks like a flake of carbon.
     

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  29. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 32,345

    The37Kid
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I just pulled the head of a motor I pulled out of a '47 Ford pickup, first flathead V8 I ever worked on. Supprised to find it had been filled with oil, still took close to 2 hours to wrestle the thing off, can't imagine how you do this with the motor in a car. I'm hoping this lump is worth $300.+ after I get it baked & blasted. :rolleyes:
     

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