Hot Rods where do you draw the line on faux gassers?

Seriously, if you plan to drive your car on the street at all you have to run front brakes. Dedicated race car? Great, ditch 'em. But when you have to nail your brakes hard because some little kid runs out in front of you because he was so excited to see your cool rod, you'll be glad you had front brakes that could stop you before something regretable happened.

I know first hand - happened to me at a show yesterday.

My '55 Failane will have front discs because I plan to drive the **** out of it, and that means facing the realities (and stupidities) of being on public roads and highways.

My 2 cents worth.

 

Well I'm building my car to drive to the track, run in the Vintage Gas cl*** (B/VG) and drive home. On some things my hands are tied by law (Ie front brakes) But even if we didnt have to I would run them anyway, my life and the life of others on the street is more important than looking cool!
Aiming for about '64 time slot. Its not going to be a super show car, hell I'd be surprised if it would turn a head at a hot rod event. But he Nailhead will be the most expensive (Buy double the rest of the car) part.
So does this mean its a real g***er even with front DISK brakes and possibly bolt on 12 spokes?
Once again law may make that my only option. I had a set of 12 spokes when I was about 14 and have always wanted to run them on something, so ****it! I am.

 

Trouble is, the new ones are TEN-spokers. Look at Algon's period photos above, and none of them have 12-spokes - I'd just run skinny Fentons (or Halibrands if the funds stretch that far), but it's your car, not mine.

In fact, looking at those photos brings up the question as to when the original ARE 12-spokes were first used?

 

10 and 12 spokes were made back in the day, Im not sure why everyone just remembers the 10 spokes??

 

10 or 12 spoke wheels were originally designed for altered's, modified roadsters, comp coupes and dragsters. In 50 years at the drags (east coast), I can't remember many, if any, g***ers with spokes. I'm thinking the mfg gave car weight maximums for them and g***ers were usually heavier.

 

You gotta build what you like. My wife of 20+ years wanted a different car to use on a daily basis. Since we were first married and had a "Pro Street" car. She wanted an old g***er. It's not just a fad. Finally she found a car that she wanted and wanted it done up as a g***er. We took an un believeably rust free, original, '56 Buick and gave it the treatment. I used a donor '79 El Camino for the motor trans and rear. It is a very fun car to drive and enjoy. Some people get a real kick out of it and some jump up and down in disgust that we ruined a perfectly good car by removing the nailhead and some don't believe that it's not painted. Either way she don't care. It's her car and it's the way she likes it.

Make yourself happy, before you try and impress someone else, Don

 

I don't know about other sanctioning bodies but NHRA did not allow any spindle mount wheels on G***ers until 68, before that they were actually outlined as illegal for the cl***. Which means they never had them until the cars were on the way out and becoming gl*** Funny cars with doors... Front brakes were mandatory until 65 but you still had to run bolt on wheels and you had to have a chute.

The full body cars from the Altered cl***, and what was done with aging Gas cars through the 70's and 80's may be part of why so many think steel body G***ers had spindle mount wheels in the 60's. Rules also seem to have differed in places outside of the States so that may have something to do with it aswell...

If you like spindle mounts or the bolt on fakes, run them.

What I'm getting at is though you should do what you want with your own car, if you are going to label it something it should at least be close. Otherwise knowing why this or that is right or wrong you'll at least get why someone else may not agree with you when you call your car a G***er. Now, not caring what others think, thats cool, but be aware there is a rich do***ented history proving what was and opinions won't change that.

 

Jeff Courte's car, he went on to run funny cars. He actually ran some
nitro in that olds!

 

exactly my thoughts too.

I never ever plan on building a car for the street without front brakes. With all the pictures of anglia's and willys without front brakes I started to ***ume that almost no one ran them on REAL race cars, but thanks to the info you guys have posted I see I was wrong.

I'm aiming for the '63-'65 era. It's going to be a long process and take a long time to collect the parts, but i've been wanting a car to go "all out" on and I think this will be the one.

 

This is a picture of my '48 Morris Van that I drove on the street in the early 70's. You mention front brakes, it had econoline spindles and brakes in the front, still looked like a g***er (I think) and was still safe to drive. You also mention ride, etc--we drove this all over the country and won "Best Truck" at the 1970 Popular Hot Rodding Magazine event in Benton Harbor, Michigan a**** other awards. Also drove it to Memphis in 1971 (NSRA), from North Tonawanda, NY. IMO, safety is first.

 

Here's what I don't understand on this thread. Why are people even thinking of building nose high cars? It was a short fad. Short, because it didn't really work. If I remember correctly, and I do, the concept was supposed weight transfer to the drive wheels. The idea was that if the front was up the weight would shift to the rear and help the car hook up. Why this proved wrong is the concept of stored kinetic energy. At around 60 foot the rear springs began to unload that stored kinetic energy, causing the springs to go back to their original shape and the car would lose traction. If this weren't true, the fast cars would be sporting that nose in the air look today.

So, what many of you are doing is perpetuating poor engineering to achieve a "Look". And that smacks of Rat Rodding, to me.

YMMV

 

I see what you are saying, ****TT....

Running a flathead is "perpetuating poor engineering" too, since LS1s are available and much, much better technology. I guess it's all perspective, and where an idividual wants to "draw the line". <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

 

Yeah and beam axles, nailheads, friction shocks, drum brakes, and pretty much every single thing else that is done on this board is **** compared to modern tech. MII was **** suspension when it was new, but easy to fit on other stuff...

It's not done for the absolute performance, it's done for the look and feel of an era.

 

haha, no that's just a freak

 

Hey Buddy,
I think your original question was about where do ya draw the line and could a decent g***er style car be streetable. Then everyone includeing me went off on a tangent.

Here's my thoughts:

Yes you can build a real decent looking and moderately healthy car that is totally streetable.

Will it be compe***ive on an NHRA level? Probably not unless you make a ***** out of it and hang everyones name that can come up with the bucks on the flanks

But you can make it quick and a handfull and still drive it to the track, beat the hell out of it and drive it home grinning.

Just remember that less is more, it'll be a hoot.

 

I sort of wish I had never posted to this thread, it's like looking at a highway accident and wishing you hadn't looked, but, in for a dime, in for a dollar...

I understand wanting to recreate the style and feel of a past era. I do not, however, get resurecting engineering that didn't work very well. Maybe someone can explain it to me?

Don't even try to explain that red Galaxie with the mudbogger stance. That's just dumb...

 

since joining here ive mostly lurked but anything about g***ers gets my attention ive got a 64 nova yes i barley make it for the hamb and im going to be putting a straight axle under it this winter and taking the t-350 out and stuffing a 4 speed in there the 301 thats in there will be getting a tunnel ram. and the 12 bolt will recieve some 5:13's. the motor is beefed up ok with a set of camel humps no allum for me. this car will be driven to the track i luck out and only live about 15 miles away haha. shakey puddin's articles really are helping me in this task. as far as faux and real g***ers go hell i dont care as long as your having fun grabbin gears thats all that matters.....isnt it? the only thing that pisses me off is a guy in a hawaiian shirt who bought his car then proceeds to brag about all the man-hours he has into it when he takes it to jiffy lube to have the oil changed......scooter

 

I'll agree with you there. Car doesn't seem to particularly fit with any era.

I think people dig the g***er thing for the history and nostalgia of it all, not becuase of any particular technical reason. If we all wanted state-of-the-art Engineering, we'd be driving C6s, or billet street rods with well designed ch***is and LS1s. Then this board wouldn't be any fun.

 

If we got to explain it you just ain.t gonna get it.It's staring me right in the face!G***ers were at their peak when I was an impressionable schoolkid,I never saw one in the flesh but I thought they were just the baddest and nothing has changed my mind sinceThe newer look with the fatter rear treads,lower fronts and bolt on front spindle wheels?Bring them on

 

Actually it did work for the tire technology at the time, as the tires improved so did the speed which made the practice obsolete and the cars were lowered for aerodynamics..

CC

 

I think a gas style car should be street legal, cause the whole point of the cl*** was to let the regular hot rod guys who didn't fit anywhere else be competetive. Altereds were the ones that were more strip only cars as far as I know. Pic up the book "G***er Wars- Drag Racing's Street Cl***es: 1955-1968" for lots of inspiration. Hell, it's right there in the name of the book, "Street Cl***es". Turning them into crazy unstreetable strip terrors came on later in the 60's. Shoot for more of an early style and your Poncho will be awesome. Beam axle, drum brakes, steel wheels, fenderwell headers, and please use a Pontiac motor.

 

Hey Spiffy those Morris Z vans are awesome. A buddy of mine in VA Beach built one with a Daimler hemi - he still has it. I'll see if I can dig up some pix later.

And yep, safety is no accident.

 

Why? The same reason you look back to anything from the past, its good times for those that were there and a connection to something that appears better than what is out there now for those that were not. Other than the "look" that many are after as you stated, to me its the wild ride. When you're not running its watching something other than a guy push a ****on and make a p*** when you are in the stands. Todays cars and modern G***ers are boring , they are fast, but all you get is a chirp of the tires, and a dead straight run that looks like you could pull it off sleeping. If I'm buying an over priced nostalgia ticket I want tire smoking, cars pulling wheelies and going sideways down the track that look like they did at the height of the era.

I wouldn't say it didn't work or that it was a bad idea but lifted nose cars are a handful. Nose up stance , weighted rear bumpers, and the insane gear ratios of the day were all about getting out of the hole on rock hard tires and getting a jump on the other guy. Many races were decided right off the line and the popular theory was first out of the gate won. After that the high front end was a hindrance but you can still find cars like this for over tens years time. The aggressive look of it then carried over on the streets through the 70's on Street Freaks which got farther and farther from where it started but kept the idea fresh in younger minds.

Like others said, it was all about the wrinkle wall tires coming out in 66 that really changed things. Combine good tires with the four link suspensions that were now more frequently popping up, some more experimenting as always and almost instantly all the big names are back on the ground in a few years time. Now looking through the years they were leveling off slowly besides this fact and moving toward running the other guy down at the far end of the track with a car that handled better but tires were the big push in this direction.

There were exceptions early on before the 24 inch crankshaft centerline rule but many cars were not as high as what you see built today. The reason being when you look at many old photos you are looking at the car with the front end unloaded so it appears much higher than they really sat when not under acceleration. It looks cool and thats why more people do it overall.

 

Hey Phil,
Aren't you glad we were actually there in the heyday of drag racing and the g***er wars? We don't have to recreate anything.... We were there.

 

yeah musta been nice.. seems like everyting now is just big sponsor big money racing with cars that are barely indistinguishable from each other and racing for 1/100 of a second.

 

First off I like 'em because they are irreverent and the an***hesis of baggies. Second, they give you more smiles per mile even if they ride rough and choppy. Watch the reactions of kids and adults (note: I did not say 'grown ups').

My rusty ratty g***er wannabe has good brakes, okay handling, uncomfortable, loud, fast, OBNOXIOUS and gangs of fun. These are all virtues in my book. You'll get more attention in one of these than any $$$$Ferrari, Porsche, Lambo or whatever - if that's your bag. But the thing is that almost everybody loves them and it makes you feel like a rock star. Go ahead, sit in it - sure your kids can too - fire it up for the kids and they'll be hooked.

You get so many compliments from people saying how refreshing it is to see something unpretentious and then go on to say how sick and tired they are of seeing trailer queen, primped, coiffed, manicured and polished bling bling Perfectomobiles. You know why? They can relate to g***er style cars.

 

as the head of the central state g***er ***ociation, my view is from a race standpoint , not a show or to drive or to sit and talk about, but to race. I build a good many of these cars to race in the nostalgia races and we usually use 4 wheel disc brakes, nose high but all new parts and coil overs and ladder bars in the rear, we set it up on scales and they run, hook go straight and are fun to drive. we call em g***ers because they look that way, I could give a **** what perior or year . and a lot of the guys on here that ***** about em were born so late they rode around in a smokey bandit trans am in there infant seat and have no clue what the hell we are doing racing these things... I for one dont think we are building rat rods, I just got tired of super gas and super pro racing with the strut front cars and decided to make the switch and i am loving it...
lots of opinons here and I always respect your's chili........sw

 

Aaaaargh the dreaded "Screamin' Chicken"!

 

Bang! Right on the nail! Well put mate and pretty much my view as well. I need a streetable car but I want to do it differently, my way. I also want to experience some of what they did before my time, handling, tuning, building and enjoying.
Its the whole experience for me not just a fad or following the sheep.
Cheers,
Doc.

 

Here's a little video clip from this evening to bring this great thread back to the top.