Who Here Builds Cars WITHOUT a TIG Welder?

Nice patch!! You just proved you can weld in a good patch with a mig or a tig and have it to where the metal is not distorted and needs 1/4'' of bondo. There is more to welding sheet metal then just jumping around. That is a fairy tale. The metal is going to be distorted and it will need some re-stretching.


So my mo-do is use what you have I prefer the tig. I have been practicng welding in my panels with no filler rod here lately.

 

All I have is a pedal. You figure out how to do it.

 

I do all my welding with ox/actl. Torch is a great multi purpose
tool. Not expensive and does almost every thing. There are times
I miss a tig. Used to work in shops w/tig; they are great for building
fancy stuff in aluminium or stainless.

 

Did MIG and stick professionally a couple years, certified, retested regularly. Not much I can't do with MIG, learned lots of tricks on thin stuff. Practice and experience is everything with any process - saw oldtimers do amazing things with gas and stick. Would love to have TIG, but the machine I want costs as much as the parts I have in my projects, and its easier to take it to my brother. Speaking of which, its really great to be a car guy when one brother is a professional TIG guy and the other is a good body man and painter.

 

When you are on your back under a car and can't step on the pedal, put it between your knees and squeeze, you know like the thigh master lol. Seriously it works good, not as awkward as you might think. I have even used my elbow when space is tight.

 

My new Miller Diversion 165 has thumb wheel on the torch to control amperage in those situations.

When I plug the foot pedal in ,it disables the thumb wheel control on the torch.

A very neat feature.

 

Both of our tig machines are air cooled they work great. We tig weld almost everything.

 

I strongly agree!

The Miller Diversion 165 gets a lot of grief from most professional welders claiming that it is dumbed down, not adjustable etc etc but they were not the target buyers for it. Miller did a great job putting together a TIG welder that is easy to set up and use for the non-pro guy like me with a small home shop that only does light automotive welding.

Miller provided a really nice Weldcraft Torch with hand controls that is very comfortable to use. It is an inverter based machine and gives great results on both aluminium and steel out of the box. I use 1/16" thoriated tungsten on both aluminium and steel sheet from 26 ga to 11 ga and 3/32" for anything thicker than 11ga.

I am still working with it to get my consistancy down - my stack of dimes looks more like a handful of pocket change, but it is getting better. Also I have noticed that my MIG welding has improved since I have been working with TIG. The better fit up that TIG requires makes for much nicer MIG welds, also I find that I am more sensitive to contolling the puddle heat with my MIG which gives more consistant welds as well.

and it is really great to be able to weld aluminum!!!

Oh, and I got it on sale earlier this year at my local welding supply for just a bit over $1300. For reference, I paid $1500 for my Lincoln 215 MIG 4 yrs ago.

You dont have to drop $3500 to get a modern inverter based TIG.

 

You are totally right. I myself am a professional welder, pressure welder and full time Welding Instructor.

At school we teach using Dynasty 350s, which are very nice but are way more machine than the average guy needs in his shop.

I love the Diversion 165, for me it is a perfect machine and couldn't be better for my rod building at home needs.

 

Mig welding. if it's good enough for Ferrari, it's probably good enough for a model A.

 

I doubt very much that every component on a Ferrari is built with MIG. And I can guarantee you that the Ferrari factory F1 racing team does very little Mig work and a whole bunch of Tig.

As far as the Diversion Tigs lack of adjustability goes, it is plenty adjustable. A good Tig welder pays little attention to amperage settings or numbers.

They mean very little. I set the machine near the top of the scale and watch (read) the puddle as it flows.

I adjust the amperage up or down as I see fit with the pedal or the thumbwheel and most of the time have no idea how much amperage is actually running to do the work.

 

so what is your secret on stick welding body panels? I want to learn!

 

Doug, Oxy/a is about 1000 euros down here, i know cause im gonna buy it w/ the double salary of december! as much as my digi mig costed me!

Bludice i'd like to know too. I tried for years to stickweld body panels, even managed to fill a few holes w/ the thinner sticks, but it heats up tooooo much and go through eventually.
If he can do that w/ a tecnique he is pretty damn good.

A question for the pros:
Last month i bought a used stick/tig machine as mine gave up.
How good is the tig outta those machines? i dont have the torch cause the guy lost it, but the machine has the plug and i could use it if i had it.
Question is: worth buying the Tig torch?
BTW, the stick is pretty unbelievable! better than many i tried.
and as for the original thread i culd build a whole car w/ just stick for the frame and mig for bodywork.
Oxy/a would help on those spots deformed by the heat, but hell! you do what you can!

 

I'm a big fan of MIG. I learned on and used a Craftsman for years. I thought it worked pretty well until I stepped up to a MM 211 this year. What a difference, there is nothing I won't weld now. I can't wait to try out the spoolgun on Aluminum. I would like to try a TIG sometime, but I don't feel it's absolutely necessary.

 

Mig,electric or oxy.A tig would be cool but not needed.dont need to learn how to tig,maybe tig guys should learn how to oxy!

 

I've only needed to weld sheet metal so I bought a cheap flux core. It's done everything I've needed it to so far and when it takes a dump, I'll probably get a flux/mig unit. If I ever need to do any heavy welding I'll get a stick welder. Like others have said, I can't afford a TIG.

 

A TIG is nice but I have built dozens of cars with MIG only. Don't laugh but the first racecar we built was welded with a homemade welder. It welded great for a stick machine and we never broke a single weld in a crash.

Scott
Fab Manager
Welders360

 

^^^ No one laughs i think.^^^
Stick welders are way underestimated. For thick material (frames 4 example) theres nothing better strengthwise. Big carrier ships are stick welded afterall!
Also if youre good at it the bead can look very very nice.

As for my previous question, are the MMA/Tig welders any good?
I bought this stick machine last month cause my old one gave up and it has a TIG torch plug and a noozle to attach gas. The TIG torch wasnt included in the 50 bucks bargain prize.
The stick welding (MMA) is surprisingly good, best ive ever tried.
Do you guys think it is worth gettin the TIG torch and gas or are these type of machines usually crap?
Thanx!

 

Currently I do everything with mig (mm211), but I'm learning how to TIG right now. I'd like to be able to build my own roll cages and NHRA requires all chrome moly cages be TIG welded.

 

Each has its place, you can do all with oxy, you actually will get a tig comparable weld in strength with oxy if you are good, in structural mig is the hardest to use to get a good structural result, it heats up fast and cools fast and tends to cause crystals in the metal, so you have to heat treat it. SMAW works good for a lot of applications but requires a lot of cleaning as you get a ton of flux inclusion in your welds, every time you start and stop you have to clean a lot. Tig has the advantage of the shielding gas and the ability to work a wide spectrum of metals, its very diverse. One of the things that I wonder about is the stacking of the dimes in the welding process, while it does make a weld that is beautiful in appearance and takes a ton of skill to achieve, the stacking of dimes technique is frowned upon by those who would certify a pipe weld in an industrial application, there would be penetration worries, don't get me wrong these are beautiful welds and most I have seen look at least to a naked eye to be plenty strong, I would say that a new or less accomplished welder should bend test and break some test metal or do a close hot root pass and then do a dime stack over the top of it. Don't pick a weld type or system for weld appearance, chose one for strength and durability.

 

Have a tig, havn't used it cause my new garage isn't set up for it,sooooo. I've been using my old Lincwelder. Probably 10-20 years older then me. Weld's great! Stick is tradional.

 

I have a TIG, but I didn't use it to build my car. I MIG-ed the frame together.

 

No TIG here, I got a Millermatic 211 with MVP and it is the only welder set up I will ever want or need. If you know what your doing and take you time, you can have MIG welds just as clean if not better than a TIG weld. My opinion though.

 

Have a little bitty mig..did the flux core, it is nasty dirty.... changed ot mig/mix and it is pretty damn good. Not going to do any heavy weld shit with it... it's not the machine for that.

Would love a tig....probably more for trying to see how good i can do it... but there is a few nice car parts that could be purchased with that money.