I suspect someone out there has an answer for this. Went to move my '55 Ford last weekend - has been stationary for past couple of years, brakes were working fine - hit the pedal every so often while it was parked and had firm pedal. Car has original-style single master cylinder: it, along with brake cylinders had kits put in them and flex lines at rear axle and fronts were changed out 7 years ago and DOT 3 fluid used. Steel lines are still original and look OK; I did replace a section between middle of frame and rear flex line 15 years ago. Fast forward to last weekend, and when I went to hit the pedal after getting it to move it went straight to the floor. Looked under the car and saw no evidence of fluid leaking out from the brakes/drums/backing plates/lines - everything was dry. This would seem to narrow down failure to the master cylinder. No signs of leaks at the firewall under the hood. Today I opened the MC and saw that it was dry - no fluid. Disconnected the brake line and unbolted it from the firewall - some brake fluid was in the rubber boot but I didn't see fluid go down the inside of the firewall or on the floor pan. Opened it up, pulled out and cleaned up the piston, cup and spring - nothing looked deteriorated, cup and seal on piston seemed pliable and not torn. Took the brake hone to the bore and did find some very mild pitting on the bottom, so I'll go ahead and get a new MC next week, flush/bleed the system with fresh DOT3 and save the old one for sleeving in the future (original Ford cylinder with engineering number). I'm at a loss as to how/why the MC drained down to nothing over the course of about a year. Admittedly I haven't pulled the wheels/drums yet to check the wheel cylinders for leaks that didn't show from the exterior. Why does a master cylinder fail like this?
Pretty simple actually,if you don't use it you lose it At this point you should do this which is actually cheaper than the price of a single master replacement and it will give you that extra margin of safety: This applies for any 1952-59 Ford car.
If there was no fluid then it leaked out somewhere. It doesn't just disappear even if it is contaminated. I have had a wheel cyl go with a single pot and it is not something I would recommend. I would change it for safety reasons but you still need to find out where the fluid went.
Agree 110%. New master cylinder arrives Thursday, install and bleed brakes on Friday after I pull the wheels/drums to check wheel cylinders. Hopefully no surprises.
Hit the proverbial "speed bump" when I went to bleed brakes - didn't have a deep-well 6-point 10mm socket to crack open the bleeders on Friday. Pulled off wheels - didn't see evidence of brake fluid seeping out. Could only get one rear drum off and didn't see evidence of failed wheel cylinder - haven't pulled fronts off yet, though. Got socket and opened lines Sunday but didn't have helper to pump brakes. Tried using Mity-Vac to **** fluid thru lines but didn't have right fitting to go over bleeders, so effect was minimal and still have weak pedal. Had to buy cheapo bleeder kit to get fittings yesterday. Hope to have friend over on Sunday to pump/bleed them. In the mean time I'm cleaning out my '40 Tudor and blowing out 35+ years' worth of dirt and crud from all the crevices and recesses.
You really have to peel the WC boots back to see if they are seeping. Brake fluid attracts water, so any moisture from condensation will form over time and it tends to lie in low areas like the wheel cylinders.
OK, stupid question time. Had a guy come over today to buy a couple of front brake drums and a used horn ring for his '55 Customline more-door project (interesting story in itself). Started comparing notes and he made a comment that there should be a small rubber or nylon piece in front of the pedal rod in the master cylinder piston's bore for the rod. I did notice a clip near the end of the pedal rod, and I didn't have anything fall out of the old MC's piston. Should there be something in between the rod and the piston? Still on track to bleed brakes on Sunday, if not on Saturday after I back off on adjusters and pull driver's side drum as well as front drums off for wheel cylinder inspection.
The rod had a nylon tip and this is to prevent metal to metal contact against the piston these tips degrade over time and disappear,now this question has come up here in the past members noticed what they thought were threads on the rod tip in fact they are just grooves and there are no replacement tips for them.So being faced with the same issue when I did my dual master upgrade I found a vinyl cap like you use on a vacuum source that fit the end of the rod lubed it with a dab of white grease and called it done,just have to think creative with our old Fords.
Does the nylon tip have to be of a certain thickness, i.e. 1/16" or 1/8", to meet any specs for spacing, end play, etc.?
Update: Today I attempted to bleed the brakes using "Speed Bleeders," which have a check ball in them to allow for one-person bleeding (or so I thought). Installed the new bleeder valves and worked my way around the car, starting at the right rear, opening them 1/2 turn then pumping the pedal until I heard fluid coming out each time I pumped the pedal. Found that I was missing a copper crush washer between the master cylinder and the br*** junction block - luckily I had one in my parts bins, installed it and hopefully cured one leak. Pedal is not firm and there is still quite a bit of travel before the pedal stops, but at least it's short of hitting the floor. Tomorrow afternoon a friend is supposed to come over and we'll attempt the old-fashioned two-person method. If that doesn't firm up the pedal, then I'll need to pull the MC and check to see if it needs a spacer in front of the push rod. Plus I need to order new adapters for my Mity-Vac as I can't find the ones that came with the kit when I got it 15 years ago (ugh). And, no, I didn't pull the other three drums off yet to check wheel cylinders - I really need to do that, I know, but I at least need to get the car movable in the shop so I can work on my T-bird and pull the rear hubs/drums off my '40 Ford tudor.
If you have an air compressor get this: http://www.harborfreight.com/brake-fluid-bleeder-92924.html This will have you tossing the Mighty-Vac in the trash,it actually worked so well when I did a complete brake job replacing all the wheel cylinders and brake lines and converting to a dual master it was 105+ outside and I had hit the garage fridge for several PBR's and forgot to bench bleed the master.Well since all the lines were in and everything was bolted down I said screw it I'll see if it bleeds,I started in the rear and in a matter of minutes no air! went to the front and no air came out and a firm pedal all less than 10 minutes total bleed time have used it on several other jobs with the same great results.
Make sure that the shoes are pretty well adjusted. This helps the bleeding and brings the pedal up. Sometimes quite a bit.
Air compressor hookup? What am I missing here? I looked at this at my local HF outlet in Omaha-ha today and p***ed on it, then I finally figured out how to get to the posted link (cut/paste into my browser search bar) and now I see it's what I looked at in the store. According to the instruction manual (at least what I read when I took it out of the box to check it out) - it works off of vacuum like a Mity-Vac - there's no air connection to the fluid reservoir to pressurize it, you hook up the pump end at the bleeder valve and pull the fluid through. The adapters that hold the fluid reservoir in place I wasn't so sure about - I was expecting a plate or plug with a fitting in it so that the reservoir opening was sealed and no excess fluid leaked out and over the sides of the MC. So, you got pictures of how it worked on your car? When you open the valve on the reservoir with in upside down and over the MC fill hole, does it just dump fluid all over everything and you have to rush to get to the rear wheel to start pumping to pull the fluid through? What am I missing here? If it really does work on a '55 MC like I'll have to go back to HF on Sunday or Tuesday and spend around $40 to get it.
You will only be using the part that looks like a paint sprayer,the air goes in the bottom of the handle from the compressor the small hose on the end with the cup attaches to the bleeder valve when you pull the trigger it will pull out the air and dirty fluid when there are no bubbles in the clear line there is no air,move on to the next cylinder you start from the rear end at the front.Top off your master replace the cap and add as needed.That extra bottle is for later model cars with the plastic reservoirs.
Go to the web site and click current ad look through it and there is a link to coupons there is a 20% off available you can text to sometimes they are in the flyers up front I got one in my grocery adds this week.
OK, thanks for the clarification, Jeff-my bad. I thought you had to have the tall reservoir over the top of the MC to keep feeding fluid. And I didn't look close at the handle to see a threaded hole for the air fitting. So what happens is you're drawing a vacuum by pushing air through the handle and out the vent that's perforated? Just trying to wrap my head around how it would work. And, yes, I saw it was on sale and need to print out the coupon or get one from the bin in the front of the store. Hopefully they'll have them in Lincoln, too, since I'm going to a tractor show northeast of town today.
Didn't work on it today but did get the pneumatic brake bleeder system noted by JeffB2 - shore 'nuf I didn't read the instructions where it showed the air line going into the gun for the used fluid container. I did find a few vendors that sell the B5A-2142 nylon cap/spacer for the end of the master cylinder rod with some wide variations on pricing. I need to order some other things anyway to keep from getting gouged on shipping - for now I'll try the vinyl vacuum cap trick. Maybe after going to a couple of shows tomorrow I'll work up the gumption to try out the bleeder and see if my pedal can firm up after ****ing more fluid through. The other "rub" for now is finding a brake drum puller to pop off the rear drum that's stuck on the driver's side (the p***enger one I got off after backing off the adjusting wheel a couple of weeks ago). A decade ago I rented a Snap-On tool with a steel bar, two jaws and a threaded shaft with a pilot point that pulled drums off my '63 T-bird, but nobody in Omaha had one for rent. A few parts places all showed the same OTC tool (OTC 6980 - http://www.otctools.com/products/brake-drum-and-rotor-puller ) with prices ranging from $115 to $220! A local CARQUEST jobber has one on the shelf that I'll look at on Monday and probably buy.
Did you try backing off the adjuster all the way? If it is all the way backed off a couple blows from a large hammer should free it.
Update: With two fans blowing and a heat index over 100 degF, I tackled several things this afternoon. Picked up the drum puller on Monday - doesn't bother me to buy quality tools like that if I know I'm going to use them in the future and not just one time. First, popped off the stuck drum with the OTC drum puller (btw no Tinnerman nuts on studs): hand-tightened the screw to snug it up, a couple of turns with an adjustable wrench, a couple good hits with a hammer and it popped right off. Expensive new tool used once did the trick. Checked rear wheel cylinder - pulled boots back and didn't see any seeping, so I put the drum back on, then adjusted the brake shoes at all four corners (well, just the star adjusters, not the upper eccentrics). Re-bled the brakes with the pneumatic vacuum bleeder - that was a breeze. Managed to pull out more air, looked like I pulled clear, clean fluid through all four corners. Then installed a vinyl cap/spacer on the brake pedal push rod to reduce the amount of pedal travel - what a PITA. New boot on master cylinder didn't want to go over the cap without a fight - tried putting the boot on the rod then pull the boot over the back of the M/C - no go, couldn't get the boot to seat, so put boot back on M/C, blocked the pedal from the inside so it wouldn't move, and wiggled and shoved until it popped over the vinyl cap on the end of the rod, then wrenched down the four bolts to pull the M/C against the firewall. Checked bleeders one more time to make sure they were closed, got inside car and put foot on pedal. I still don't call it outstanding as I don't like how far pedal travels until it starts meeting resistance, but the pedal goes half-way now instead of close to the floor. I'd prefer that the pedal be hard as soon as you put your foot on it, so there's some adjustment yet to be done. Put wheels back on, lowered car off of jack stands, primed the carb, started the car and moved a few feet forward and reverse to reposition. Need to take it for a short drive to get a better feel for what's going on and adjust the carb. Still baffles me why pedal has so much travel before it gets hard, though - still need to pull front drums/hubs to check cylinders, maybe tomorrow or next weekend. Have set-up for big invitation-only car show tomorrow morning that will be held on Sunday.
Getting that adjustment right on can be a pain which is why we recommend this: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/self-adjusting-brakes-for-a-54.899224/
It is possible that your drums have been "turned" (machined) past their recommended maximum diameter. Most drums have the maximum diameter value cast on them somewhere, or refer to the shop manual. While you have them off it would be a good time to check. You may need to take another trip to Harbor Freight for an inexpensive vernier caliper large enough to do the job.
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