Why do Pontiac engines suck ??

Another vote for the old Pontiac. With the cost on a street motor its really not that bad as most of the stock parts can be used as others have pointed out the Pontiac doesn't have to spin like a SBC to make good power. The Pontiac may not peak out as high but any decent engine builder will tell the peak numbers sound cool but its the usable power band and torque range that matter. The Pontiac makes a sound power plant. Ask Falcon Gasser about his slick Pontiac-Bantam.

 

Lazy is a good way to put it. And I understand the cost factor of building a small block chubby vs. everything else

And, like was stated by many here, you have to do your homework. I know most would rather follow than lead but it iritates me none the less when so many take the "belly button way out" instead of stepping up to the plate.

 

I would agree that you can build a Chevy cheaper and make it go faster but when I built my altered I wanted a little different power plant and a friend of mine gave me a Pontiac 400 he had and that was my building block from there. I dont have anything radical done to the engine and just researched out the best cast iron factory heads for the money and the things that I had to do to make the engine survive 5500 to 5800 r.p.m's and made sure I did that. I have ran a best of 10.60 @ 135 m.p.h. and I have over 300 runs on it and it still is going strong. Now I am looking at doing a front engine rail and will most likely go with a small cube SBC. The Pontiac does make some nice low end power and is a great conversation item in the altered.

Jon

 

Pontiac engines can be found for reasonable prices, if you keep your eyes open. There's a couple complete 400s on my local Craigslist right now for about $400, one even has a TH400 transmission included. Heck, I just gave away a rebuildable 389 short block a couple weeks ago.

I think a lot of people have been brainwashed over the years by the Chevy guys.

 

There was an article in High Performance Pontiac in the mid-nineties...I think it was called "Vette Killer". It was a build up of a de-stroked 455- with a 389 crank. I think that it ended up a 421, which was a production motor. The point was that the 389 steel cranks were more commonly available at the time-plus ported set of GTO heads. Anyone remember this?

About that same time, I had a 462 Pontiac with 2.11/1.77 heads, intake, and a mid-range cam in a '75 Firebird. It was nothing radical, just a well matched combination. I remember everyone being like- "OH, that 455 is a boat anchor". I flat out murdered any of the new LT1 corvettes I came up against. It made so much torque that I snapped off nearly every lug on the rear axle one at a time from 1-2 shifts, and about twisted that old F-body in half. That was with an automatic and 2.73 rear gears. Heehee- fun stuff.

 

Preach it Jeff!!!

 

being around dirt tracks for years you see the survial of the fitest. if you want to win you run a chevy. if you want to prove a point with some other brand it can be done but not easy. of course they are exceptions. but only few and far between. pont, buick, and olds v/8,s were all phased out by gm. only the chevy survives.

 

I picked up some old magazines a couple weeks ago and this cover shot and the related article is what got me thinking about this. This engine was prepared by Motion Performance. Damn nice looking engine!

 

I knew I would get somebody cranked up even though I stated I have nothing against a Pontiac

 

Its more like survival of the most focused on.
No matter what the make is, if its got nearly 100% of the focus for that long. Yes it will be the top dog in that arena.
That’s pretty much what’s so boring about so many forms of racing to one hell of a lot of people.

 

I love Poncho engines. I put a mild '73 (headers, 4 bbl, stock cam!) 400 TH400 into a '69 Lemans with a GTO nose and hood, that thing would fry 12 inch wide Pro Tracs until I let off the loud pedal.

I had a buddy with a daily driver '68 Lemans that ran low 13s all day long with a 455. Another buddy has a '73 TransCamaroBird that clicked off high 12s when it was Pontiac powered. It has an LS1 6 speed now.

I wouldn't mind another one, personally, but it's hard enough to keep up the Mopar end of my hobby right now!

 

The difference is that racers focus on usefulness and total performance, not style.

They don't run Chevys to "fit in", they run them because they're easy to find, make good power, and are generally speaking the lightest option you'll find for an iron block.

That Poncho motor will weigh another 75-125 lbs over a SBC, and be damned near a hundred cubic inches smaller in displacement. That makes a hell of a difference in a race car, especially considering where that motor lives.

I raced with guys who were hard core Ford men, and they would spend ~50% more to build a comparable motor. Pretty much the same weight, more or less the same displacement, more or less the same power, just a fuzz more expensive. No major down side, so if they had the money and the incling, there was no reason not to run them.

Saw a few guys try to run Chrysler motors, but they never lasted very long. The motor is so heavy that their cars would push like a pig on ice. Plenty of power, but just too much iron in a bad place. They'd run half a dozen races, and then one weekend you'd see that car with a new motor, usually a Ford ('cause those kind of guys would look at running a Chevy as some sort of "defeat" or "treason").

That's fine though, 'cause you don't really have to out run the guy with a big block Chrysler fetish. You just have to dodge him on the first lap as he's heading up the bank, wheels cut hard left, but he's still running dead straight. At that point, everyone in the crowd gets to point and laugh as his car jumps the bank, vaults over the fence, and ultimately lands in the parking lot beyond. Seen it happen.

You can't fool physics, no matter how much you love a particular brand of engine.

Me, I like Chevy motors. Easy to find, easy to work on, good power, light weight, and good RPM potential (both rate of change and ultimate). That, and the car snobs die inside just a little bit every time they see one.

It's like that torture the Chinese used, called the "Death of a Thousand Cuts". . . . . . . .

 

Quite a few years ago I had a 66 GTO with a 400 in it, which replaced the 389. The 400 had a wiped intake lobe on number 6 cylinder when I got it and idle like a Pro Stocker, she still ran pretty damn hard and would turn the tyres till you took your foot off the gas. I loved that car!

Boner

 

Pontiac project w/ pontiac power

 

Must be quick with that Poncho, blew the back window out.
The 421SD rocks!

 

Also, the last build date on any 400 Poncho is 1977. 1976 was the last 455. If you were born on today's date 1988....you're 21. I was born in '68. In 1989 I drove home, 2 counties away, a 1970 GTO convertible for $450. Coronado Gold, Sandalwood interior, white top....fact.455 auto, with a '71 455 service block. What's it worth now? No I no longer own it.

 

The boring, the lazy, the cheap run sbc's.

If your goal is to drag race, want to be cheap and want to win consistently, then no one in the know would question using a sbc or a bbc. However, if your aim is be cool, be different and have power, then using a MEL, an Olds, A Buick or a Pony is the only way. I love my MEL.................but, it ain't cheap.

 

Actually I read that they suck due to a low pressure being created inside the motor when the piston goes down, this causes the outside higher ambient air pressure to push air into the new low pressure area. So in a nutshell, they dont suck at all.
Doc.

 

mine sucks fuel ! He He !

 

Yeah, I'd like to try this one sometime ....

 

I run a spalding with two msd boxes in mine ! ! GOT SPARK ! ! !

Sure do love the pontiac motors on this thread ! ! thanks Applecrate, Beep, Slim, others for the Pontiac Gospal ! ! Amen ! !

 

They don't - Pure gossip.
Everybody got stompped by a Pontiac, then one day somebody said ...
"Oh Pontiacs suck"
ignorance took over and here we are today.
Belly-button, off the shelf parts is about the only edge that a SBC has over any other mill.
Going fast is not cheap, its just the most economical with a SBC.

 

I worked at a junkyard for 3 years (1979-82) and we never got in a pontiac engine that we could sell as "good used". they were all knocking, locked up, or smoking.

I don't know why that is.

 

HUH. I GUESS IT TAKES 2 SMALL BLOCK CHEVYS TO EQUAL 1 PONTIAC!



"Never judge a person by the kind of car they live in"

 

sbc users lack imagination and they are lazy as all hell, they spend $14,000 on their car and Yet they still bitch about spending any cash or time on the engine whatsoever, I think, that To a sbc guy an engine is a necessary evil.

 

it boils down to money and the fact that the nah-sayers can't build engines. Their shit ends up being slow and they blame it on the engine, like it CAN'T be their fault.

 

What I think you are missing is that a lot of us car guys don't necessarily CHOOSE a motor, it could be by happenstance. I used the L6 in my Hotrod Nash by chance. If I had a Poncho, a SBC, or Mopar motor, or whatever, that I picked up at the swap meet for cheap, whatever it was, I would try to run it as I got it, if it smoked too much I'd overhaul it and use it. It would work good and last a long time. For example: I wouldn't replace the rods because somebody told me they were crap. I'd bore the cylinders, new pistons and rings, new cam bearings, do a plain old fashioned valve job and run it.

Could I get more power with some other motor? Of course, but there's a lot of guys like me that work with what we got, and more power? for what? Any motor that gets me to IH left lane speeds it plenty good enough for a lot of people.

 

Real men run aircraft engines in their cars!!!

lol

But seriously, i can build a cheap torque monster from a buick or a ford or a olds, and not spend a stupid amount of cash, in fact, i usualy can build a mean ass engien in under $800, thats because i don't bow down to the all mighty dollar , and im willing to Call around and make parts work, hell I’ve used the turbos off of Russian skid loaders and aircraft Stromberg carbs, why? Because I look, and I will not nor could not stand Someone looking under the hood of my ride and tell me that his friend, brother, cousin Or father has the exact same setup! FUCK THAT SHIT HOMIE! NO FRIGGIN WAY MAN! , im not GM's bitch! And im not NHRA's bitch! I'M a gearhead! And I can think Outside of the box

 

This is my F100 with a 400 Poncho. It runs great, never breaks down and has tons of low-end tourque.