Technical Why does it seem everyone has cooling issues?

Also, they want the newest thing on the market. I know of a '65 GTO that over heats bad, he bought a dual fan shroud combo kit and new aluminum radiator to replace the original. Solid shroud with twin 8" fans, figuring the square inches, 113 are open for air flow, 312 square inches are blocked off, no wonder it over heats!

 

I actually pressure washed the coolant ports of my 350 before I put it in. Everything else in the cooling system aside from fan was new. I guess that could be part of why I don't have issues

 

Eh....I spent a lot of years building the types of hot rods that aren't welcome here. Like a 93 S10 blazer with a fairly built 400 sbc. Around 11:1 compression with vortex heads and a hairy cam. Ran it with an engine driven fan and a stock aluminum radiator from a 2000 blazer. We did utilize the oil cooler from the later blazer. And I have a monte Carlo that I supercharged swapped with higher boost and compression. It also uses factory available extra cooling like the oil cooler. And I added an intercooler. I still consider that car slow (mid 13s) but it's still one you'd think would tend to run hot. Yet even in Houston summer heat it never touched 200°.

As to the car I posted a pic of the cooling system of I've seen a lot of guys with far tamer setups with a LOT more expensive cooling system parts that always complain that it runs hot. One is running a bone stock 305 with what was a $700 radiator a couple years ago. Part of why I was so surprised by my El cheapo El Amazon radiator (as in $160 shipped lol) doing so well. And oddly fits better than the critically damaged afco radiator I used for mockup.... cheap one sits about an inch or so lower allowing more of the core in line with the fan

 

Well, then... I guess you must just be smarter than all those other guys.

 

On the 350 in my 62 Bel Air, the car had sat for a while as well as years prior to that the engine sat for a while before I put it in. Any coolant you put in would turn brown and it was overheating regularly. I did a flush and when rinsing I filled the block with a hose while holding my hand over the end of the lower rad hose. I did that over and over until it ran clear. It took a lot of water to get it all clean. All kinds of brown sludgy chunks were coming out.

Now the car runs cool all the time.

 

Not a whole lot of gunk came out of mine. I'm the first civilian to own this engine since sold new by gm. Donor truck served on a military base for a few decades before a local fd got it. So it did a lot of sitting but still had actual regular maintenance. They sold the truck to my old boss in 2018 when the transmission went out and it sat till I bought the engine last year. Mainly I always do coolant flushes on any engine I get out of habit from doing a lot of late model gm cars and dealing with dexcool lol

 

I just can't figure out why they're overheating. Is it just that many aftermarket cooling parts like water pumps etc just are junk anymore?

 

One thing I know for sure, aftermarket fans, for the most part, are weak suck, and are totally inadequate to cool a big V8. I know some of them do the job, but you'll know you're on the right track when you need a much bigger alternator to power a new electric fan. Again, the factory electrics are like a tsunami. I'll admit, I usta not understand how tuning affected cooling demands-misadjusted valves not seating, too little timing, fuel mix outta whack, it's all gotta be right. The thing I struggle with most, is when you have a hot runner with "low hanging fruit", meaning something so obviously detrimental to cooling performance, so you fix it, and-----nothing, still overheats. So you learn you've got a multi-pronged conundrum. Believe me, if I could've spent all those hours and dollars doing something more fun, I'd have done it! It's not like I want to spend my time reinventing thermal dynamics as a pass time.

 

I'm running a Johnson radiator, V8 water pump, no shroud and a 4 blade fan with NO issues

 

I tried smoking a Camel once.
It was too big and broke my grill!

 

IIRC, weren't the OEM cooling systems designed based on the horsepower of the engine? If you're using a stock radiator designed to cool a 275 hp stock SBC and you have a 375 hp engine in the car, it is probably going to have cooling problems.
Of course, I have no idea how to figure that stuff out- are radiators even rated for different horsepower levels?

 

Were you driving through a zoo?

 

I know hotter engines tended to have heavier cooling setups. But near twenty years ago a buddy with a 68 GMC took out a deer near my house. Wrecked his radiator. So to get him on the road we used the factory radiator from my 231 v6 81 Cutlass that I had leftover after going to a factory V8 radiator when I swapped in a 350 olds. His truck was a factory 327 truck but that was stuck when he got it so he stuck in a 330 hp gm crate 350(can't remember specific crate option just that it was 330 horse lol) bolted first to the three on the tree and later a Muncie. While it had apparently never overheated on him with the original radiator the 81 v6 radiator apparently did so well that when he got in the mind to dump some cash into the truck when he happened to have a stack of cash he tried to buy a brand new replacement for my v6 radiator. Something about it had steadier temps. He ended up going with a monster oversized one after the radiator shop gave him crap though

 

Well, when I’ve ordered a radiator from a builder, cubic inches, HP, power adders, vehicle weight, towing were the main questions asked

 

Those of us who drove or our parent drove 50’s OHV cars when they were new or near new they did not have any cooling problems. For a comparison my parents drove new YBlock Fords and I continued to drive them into the 60’s. They both had 170* thermostats stock as may cars-did in that era. I currently own and drive a completely restored frame off stock YBlock 56 Ford and when I bought it in 2012 it had a cooling that always started at long light intersections. It was tough to recover.

The only thing different from then to now is the formulation of the gasoline.

I was able to fix mine by increasing the speed of the water pump so more coolant was flowing thru the radiator at idle. I do have what was once called a desert radiator, a fan shroud which was never offered on a passenger model, and a 6 blade fan; but last one was added after A/C was installed. I no longer have a temperature problem.

 

I think that the aftermarket electric fans and associated shrouds sometimes actually inhibit the flow of air through the radiator to the point that at speed, the fan comes on but can't move or allow nearly as much air to flow through the radiator as if the car had no fan at all.

 

My 35 Chebby with stock 5lt SBC runs 160 all day long with Walker style radiator and 1600cfm electric fan. However my 427FE 64 Fairlane runs 180 with Galaxie crossflow radiator and 7-blade clutch fan and no shroud. Both run coolant.

 

I don't have cooling issues. I'm just cool as hell.

 

If shrouds were the only reason cars kept cool, then it begs the question how millions of cars kept cool before manufacturers ever installed the first shrouds.

 

Is that anything like a grille?

 

I don’t have heating problems maybe because I try to design the cooling system into the build rather than as a reaction to problems.

No electric fans on my cars, proper air flow in and out, engine timing and tune, go a long way. Tight engine compartments restrict airflow, improper timing causes low speed heating.

Radiators should be sized to match engine cubic inches. I prefer copper/brass versus aluminum construction.
Fan location and size - a shroud helps to even out airflow through the core and that is the biggest factor - all the air has to pass through all of the core to be most efficient.

No doubt someone will dispute my ideas, but it works for me in regular 100 degree heat.

 

Nope. I'm pretty sure @SS327 meant grill. And he's right, a camel is just too big.

 

One or two humps? A guy walks into the sheriff's office. Said "sheriff I lost my Camel". Sherif says "does he have any identifying features?" Guy says "well he has a big hump". Sheriff says " can't just go grab any old camel, is there anything special about him?" Guy says "he has a big asshole". Sheriff says "who would ever notice something like that?" Guy says "everyone, every time I ride him through town everyone says hey look at the big asshole on the camel". pa dump dump.

 

Hello,

This is the first new car order I placed in the Fall of 1964. I got everything the dealer was able to put on as an added cost accessory. The big things were to get: heavy duty springs, shocks, radiator, and battery. The rest that I wanted, a new 396, 4 speed and bucket seats were on the Chevelle sedan, but not available for the El Camino.

Although in one year, the 66 El Camino could be ordered with all of what I wanted a year earlier. Driving a 66 El Camino 396, 4 speed with Positraction was a delight and when my friend drove to the desert races with two bikes in the back his car. He ordered it one year later at a local Chevy dealer and had it delivered it within a week. Probably, a dealer trade from somewhere in So Cal. It was powerful fun.

The heavy duty radiator looked the same, but I was given the instructions to check on the water levels at all times, except for hot motor times. For 120k miles, not one problem from my El Camino. I had gone through several sets of tires and changed the rims twice, but eventually reverted back to stock.

The motor seemed to be sitting a little high on the temp gauge. So, I was cautious in overworking or overloading the El Camino to the extremes like we did as 20 somethings. But, at 120,000 miles started to heat up more and more… changed the thermostat, got new hoses, upper and lower for obstruction free flowing.

But eventually, I had to take the whole radiator out to get access to the now squealing water pump. Nothing for 120k and now a water pump replacement. By this time, we were already looking at our next car of choice from my wife. It was her turn to check out the new cars or cars she wanted. So, at 125k miles, we sold the great running El Camino to a young surfer/sailor from Dana Point.

Jnaki

If we all take care of our cars and treat them as part of the whole family, it will take care of you. Plus, it was nice to find out the Red El Camino was made in Fremont, CA in the Bay Area on a Wednesday. No weekend residue for anticipation on Friday’s work activities or being tired on Mondays from the weekend activity. So, Wednesday was a straight forward great concentration work day. It must have worked for 120k miles of trouble free driving… YRMV

 

It must be something in the water causing it to run hot. Are you using cheap water or splurging on the good stuff?

 

Sticking with the tech spirit of the board my take has often been timing. I remain shocked by how many home brew car guys set their timing "by ear" and jack it around until it sounds either smooth or, love this one, "...so I can hear the cam." Late or retarded timing will always run hotter. The burn rate is later, which in turn heats the heads and the exhaust more than proper or optimized timing. The cooling system is management. Water pumps take in coolant at the hottest part of the engine, top of the block and right below the heads, and sends it back for cooling into the radiator from the top of the head/s. I really think the "flatheads always overheat" wives tale is bred by legions of they who didn't find TDC or in fact couldn't set up those (not) complicated ancient distributors. Out come the bandaids which try to provide a "fix" vs a solution like cheesy aluminum radiators and the dreaded electric fan.

 

only way i run an electric fan is if the motor im running has no provisions for one, meaning o/t only

 

SHROUDS MAN !!! All engines need “em” new or old …

 

When I pulled the frost plugs from my Caddy engine that had been sitting for 20 years, I spent the better part of the day getting rust and scale out of the water jackets. There was even some stuff that looked like thick black jello in there. I poked between the cylinders with all kinds of tools to get all the rust and crap loose, then I flushed it from every open hole till the water ran clean. I am sure that it would overheat if I had not done this. With the Hamb friendly engines we run (45 or more years old) I think this is the problem with builds where every thing else is correct.

 

^^^^
What he said. That can be a huge issue often overlooked by the avg hobbyist. Old coolant turns into a nasty waxy substance that doesn't dissolve.