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Technical why does my Muncie 4 speed grind going into reverse?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Jokester, Jul 17, 2024.

  1. Jokester
    Joined: Jan 29, 2005
    Posts: 793

    Jokester
    Member

    My avatar. 327/ Muncie 4 speed/ Has new synchros, bearings, seals, and gaskets 40 years ago (really). Now has 140 miles on it (really). Grinds going into reverse. All other gears work fine.

    I can get it in reverse if I push the clutch pedal through the floor, but that's a long way from the seat. If the clutch disengages properly for the 4 forward gears, why isn't the same travel enough for reverse. Clutch is a new 11" raised finger diaphragm.

    Suggestions?

    thx,
    .bjb
     
    chryslerfan55 likes this.
  2. Sounds shifty. Hehe.
     
    winduptoy and JohnLewis like this.
  3. nosford
    Joined: Feb 7, 2011
    Posts: 1,131

    nosford
    Member

    Reverse has no synchro, forward gears do. Like an old fashioned 3 speed, push in clutch, grab first or second THEN go to reverse. Do not let out the clutch in between. The forward synchro's will stop the spinning then reverse should engage without grinding. Mark
     
  4. finn
    Joined: Jan 25, 2006
    Posts: 1,467

    finn
    Member

    What Nosford said.

    plus, it sounds like your clutch isn’t completely disengaging. You don’t notice it in the forward gears because the synchronizers mask the fact that it’s slightly dragging.
     
  5. Black Panther
    Joined: Jan 6, 2010
    Posts: 2,372

    Black Panther
    Member
    from SoCal

    I'll 2nd that your clutch is not fully disengaging...adjust it a little more and see
     
  6. gary macdonald
    Joined: Jan 18, 2021
    Posts: 448

    gary macdonald
    Member

    I’ll third clutch adjustment or sear readjust closer to pedal . It’ll be hard on your syncros if you dont readjust .
     
  7. TCTND
    Joined: Dec 27, 2019
    Posts: 736

    TCTND
    Member

    I agree; sounds like a dragging clutch.
     
    seb fontana likes this.
  8. whiteknuckle
    Joined: Feb 6, 2007
    Posts: 147

    whiteknuckle
    Member
    from Dryden, NY

    What nosford said. Been doing it that way for 44 years.
     
  9. inthweedz
    Joined: Mar 29, 2011
    Posts: 628

    inthweedz
    Member

    Did you lube the spiggot bearing? If not it could be dragging and causing the shaft to spin.
    But being a new clutch assy, there will be high spots which need to bed in, take a bit of free play out of the linkage, select a forward gear then reverse for a while, it will be fine..
     
    61Cruiser likes this.
  10. RmK57
    Joined: Dec 31, 2008
    Posts: 3,086

    RmK57
    Member

    Exactly what I do with my big block top loader, works every time.
     
  11. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 35,850

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Spiggot bearing translates to pilot bearing/bushing in lands where you don't stick cutsie names on common automotive parts. Yes the pilot bushing needs to be lubed a bit.

    I'd check the free play on the clutch pedal, you want between 3/4 and one inch of free play and any more might not let the clutch release right.
     
    winduptoy and Moriarity like this.
  12. TRAVLR
    Joined: Jul 18, 2022
    Posts: 194

    TRAVLR

    I agree with Nosford. I have always put shifter in 1st or 3rd gear... Then put shifter in reverse. Prevents grinding. Trust me, grinding the reverse gear or reverse idler in muncie will cause you nothing but headaches later.
     
  13. wvenfield
    Joined: Nov 23, 2006
    Posts: 5,659

    wvenfield
    Member

    Clutch not disengaging. Same thing would happen to mine.

    I foolishly put the pressure plate from the car I got the drivetrain from back in mine. I knew better but..........
    It was crap. Just replaced it. Slick as butter into reverse.
     
    winduptoy likes this.
  14. TRAVLR
    Joined: Jul 18, 2022
    Posts: 194

    TRAVLR

    I have always shifted into a forward gear before going to reverse on any manual transmission, to insure that reverse gear didn't scrape or grind.
    Muncie, Borg Warner, Saginaw, Ford toploaders, T5, etc. I've just always got into the habit of doing so... since a lot of manual boxes have non synchro reverse gears.
     
    bschwoeble and 61Cruiser like this.
  15. Jokester
    Joined: Jan 29, 2005
    Posts: 793

    Jokester
    Member

    How strange! You all agree. That never happens on the HAMB.

    Thanks for all the replies. It's been decades since I have driven a stick, so I'll have to be re-trained to go from first to reverse every time. Hope that works.

    If it doesn't, I'm in for a re-work. I'm totally out of adjustment on the current linkage setup.

    Thanks for the help.

    .bjb
     
    nosford likes this.
  16. ClayMart
    Joined: Oct 26, 2007
    Posts: 7,763

    ClayMart
    Member

    You may not even have to fully shift into 1st gear. I've had a couple vehicles over the years that I only had to shift "towards" 1st gear, just to the point where you began to feel the shifter detents start to engage. Usually that was enough to stop the counter gear from spinning.

    But now I've got to ask a question. Would it be safe to say that no, or nearly no manual transmission ever used a synchronized reverse gear? Maybe some "high-zoot" luxury foreign model?
     
  17. choptop40
    Joined: Dec 23, 2009
    Posts: 5,739

    choptop40
    Member

    someone put a bag of Fritos in there...couldn't help myself
     
  18. joel
    Joined: Oct 10, 2009
    Posts: 2,703

    joel
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I had a clutch dragging problem on my avatar. I got under the car and had someone work the clutch pedal; what I found was the linkage between the Z bar and clutch fork was not parallel to the centerline of the crank/ transmission main shaft. This caused the fork to twist and the throwout bearing to not apply even pressure to the pressure plate fingers ( diaphragm style). uneven engagement and release is the result.
     
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  19. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 6,055

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    The fork can't " twist " the TO bearing , the throw out bearing is guided by the front bearing retainer .
     
  20. Lloyd's paint & glass
    Joined: Nov 16, 2019
    Posts: 10,798

    Lloyd's paint & glass
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Crazy grinding? Like won't go in grinding? If you can shove the pedal through the floor and it goes in normal, I think you answered your question ;) as long as the throwout bearing isn't riding on the pressure plate, adjust it a little more, until it suits you.
     
    JohnLewis likes this.
  21. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 6,055

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    The last couple OT 4 speed cars I had you had to shift in to reverse to shut the key off & lock the steering wheel , for 25 years that's what I did it's a habit now.
     
  22. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 22,144

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    Is the T.O. bearing installed on the fork correctly?
     
    Lloyd's paint & glass likes this.
  23. ClayMart
    Joined: Oct 26, 2007
    Posts: 7,763

    ClayMart
    Member

    If you're under the car and can have someone working the clutch linkage . . .

    * Check where the pedal and clutch fork levers connect to the z-arm tube. Look for any flex, distortion, deflection and/or cracks. Look for any signs of rust at the weld joints.

    * Look for any flexing of the firewall when cycling the clutch, assuming that the pedal is mounted to the firewall.

    You may not be disengaging the clutch as completely as you think.
     
  24. joel
    Joined: Oct 10, 2009
    Posts: 2,703

    joel
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I agree, however, it must have had some effect because the engagement and release was much "cleaner".
     
    Black Panther likes this.
  25. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 6,055

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    Fork was binding ...
     
  26. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 11,194

    BJR
    Member

    ?????
     
  27. Dennis D
    Joined: May 2, 2009
    Posts: 857

    Dennis D
    Member

    Be interesting to see what the reverse idler and the reverse gear look like.
     
  28. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 6,055

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    Most likely just fine .
     
  29. I have the same problem, thanks all for your opinions.
     
  30. ALLDONE
    Joined: May 16, 2023
    Posts: 3,743

    ALLDONE
    Member

    in english, Spiggot is not a word
     

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