Flawed math. Infinity minus one is still infinity. Therfore, according to the scenario laid out above, there would be an infinite number of habitable worlds. This explains LA traffic. And that was Douglas Adams, right?
Found on V twin Harleys since forever and many Japanese multi cylinder bikes.Like said above,less parts,less engineering.There may be a modern reason for it,maybe
In reality it does not matter which way it flows. It is all a matter of convention, in other words your relative frame of reference. When you solve the equations that define 'electricity', the equations work regardless of which direction you select for the flow. Once having selected a direction, you stick with it of course. When the term 'current flow' is used, the convention is that this means positive to negative. When the term 'electron flow' is used, the convention is negative to positive. Someone correctly mentioned 'hole flow'. This is also positive to negative, what it kinda sorta means is that if an electron moves, it leaves a hole, and since the electrons travel in a cloud, then the holes commensurately move in the other direction. That's an oversimplification but you get the idea. Our world is full of conventions that matter not at all. The 'enter' key is on the right. The hot water tap is on the left. Bolts (most, anyway) tighten when turned clockwise. Clocks turn clockwise, LOL. All of this stuff and more would function just the same if the conventions were flipped. So none of it matters. Electrically, the choice between positive or negative ground is the great so what. There is no basis in physics or the natural world. Negative ground just happens to be the convention that ultimately was adopted.
This is some of the funniest shit I've read in a long time! About 'lost spark' ignitions - an ign. manufacturer told me that the double coils used in those systems send out one positive spark and one negative spark. He said it's an inherent characteristic of those coils and because the magnetic windings are on one core. Anyone here know if this is true or false? If it's true, why is the 'wrong' polarity not an issue with half the plugs?
All this talk of electricity and I had always heard that Positive Ground was used on Fords initially to avoid a patent infringement to GM. Henry did NOT like to pay royalties.
Many aircraft magnetos fire positive ground and negative ground (on alternating spark plugs in the firing order) causing erosion on the center electrode on some plugs and the side electrode on the others. Proper maintenance procedures call for a "rotation" of the plugs through the order to even out the wear patterns thus extending spark plug life. http://www.sacskyranch.com/spark.htm
yes it doesnt matter just remember to jump the regulator to 'polarise it'. And if you swap the motor leads it will run either the right way or the wrong way the electrons just ???? 'backup' ggggg
Wow, all in one! If you wanted to argue, it sure went flat really fast! Sorry, I couldn't resist. Seriously, it matters not, on any practical level. Like somebody just pointed out earlier, it's just that right handed threads won out over left handed threads.
Your source is correct. In the past, the secondary winding in the coil was grounded at one end then hooked to a spark plug at the other end. Today's wasted spark systems are basically that secondary winding with the ground wire cut, and another plug inserted in it. You now have a spark plug at EACH end of the secondary winding, instead of a ground at one end and a plug at the other. In order for the coil output to go anywhere it has to jump TWO spark gaps at the same time. In the "wasted spark" discussion, most of what is being said is actually true, but possibly misunderstood. Here is an explanation of how it works. Click on the pic to enlarge it, and follow the current path. The secondary side of the coil is wired slightly different from the old traditional "single-coil-wire-to-the-cap" that most of us are familiar with. Here the plug-coil-plug are wired in series. When the coil fires, both plugs MUST fire at the same time. YES, one plug has the opposite current flow from the "other" plug it is paired with. Notice the current path, and my crude arrows. Follow from the top. The current passes from the grounded engine block, to spark plug number one ground electrode. Jumps across to the center electrode of plug number one. (Direction- ground to electrode) It travels through the coil winding, then to the other spark plug. At the next plug (cylinder number 4) it jumps FROM center electrode TO the ground electrode (opposite direction of plug #1), then to the engine block to complete the circuit. YES, one of these paired-off spark plugs has a "positive" center electrode, and one has a "negative" center electrode if you have to describe it. I am not aware of any that reverses polarity during running.
Polarity- Long ago there was an accepted test procedure to check if your car had the correct ignition polarity for the spark. Not that it matters today, it's just an item of interest. Shop classes, and also car mags, taught a lead-pencil method of testing spark polarity. As a kid, I even read about this in Popular Mechanics (or Popular Science?) by non other than Smokey Yunic in his monthly column "Ask Smokey". With the engine running, pull a plug wire. Hold the plug wire so you can see the spark jumping across from the plug wire to the engine ground. Stick the sharpened tip of the lead pencil in the middle of the spark so that the spark has to jump from the plug wire, thru the pencil tip, to the ground. The two drawings on the page showed #1 with a thin spark from the plug wire to pencil, then a thicker spark from pencil to ground. Drawing #2 showed a THICK spark from wire to pencil, and a THIN spark from pencil to ground. One was to show the correct spark polarity or "coil polarity", and the other showed the incorrect coil polarity. I don't remember which one was the correct one to copy, but it doesn't seem to matter at all today. This was back when some cars were pos ground and some were neg ground. (that changed the spark polarity) I wonder if it was just another something people used to promote their favorite car brand over another brand they didn't like. ? If I remember right, one drawing in the magazine actually showed the plug wire, the spark jumping to the pencil tip, then jumping to the spark plug terminal itself. That must have been a feat, considering the weak ignitions in the points-era.
Yep; With NO effect on the strength/effectiveness of the ignition of the f/a mixture.........................................
Friggin' Murphy's Law. Of all the threads to typo (the 'not' was missing) this one takes the cake. Thanks for catching it; I edited my post to read correctly.
A minor clarification: 'wasted spark' means that you fire the plugs on piston/crankshaft cyles (every time), instead of camshaft cycles (every other time). Many engines run this way, including modern EFIs. The coils you describe are a clever way of waving some more copper. As long as you have wasted spark any way, why not economize? This is an innovation and the type of things engineers are paid to conjure up (the same or better performance with less cost). But they exploit wasted spark, they are not 'it'.
Plym49 and dare-to-be-differant, you've explain it very well. I could not have explained it as easily. I'm told the off-compression cylinder's spark plug gets cleaned by fireing backwards. Now to muddy the waters in another direction, I'm working on a 1917 Dodge Brothers for my buddy. It has a Delco ignition, 12 volt negitive ground chargeing system. The ignition switch reverses the polarity to the points EVERY time you start the car. The key in the off position would be at 12:00, when you turn to 3:00 you can push the starter button and engine will run on negative ground. To stop the engine you turn to 6:00. Next time you start it turn to 9:00 and ignition is positive ground, turn to 12:00 to turn it off. The rest of the electrical system is not affected, just the current to the points. The owner's manual says it's to make the points last longer, describes the buildup from one point contact to the other being reversed each time.This Delco distributor was used on other cars of that era, but I don't know if they all reversed polarity. Has anyone heard of this before? I studied the wireing diagram for quite a while before I understood what was going on.
Thank you! That sounds like the clever sort of thing that was done by the automakers back in the day when materials were not as good. It sounds like all of the magic occurs in the switch, with the points not grounded to the chassis. I am pretty sure, though, that that ignition setup would be illegal in Missouri. As far as self-cleaning plugs that others have mentioned, I am skeptical of that. Nowadays plugs last 100K miles. Why would they need to be self-cleaning? The wasted spark design is to save cost of materials, not to save plugs.
I've heard the spark plugs last a little longer using negative ground. One thing for sure, if you're going to install modern electrical accessories like an electric tachometer or a modern radio....negative ground is sure easier to buy stuff for.
Ha. that's the way automakers bedazzled the consumer with bullshit, some engineer convinced the boss into letting him tout his harebrained theory in print. And, of course, a lot of consumers ate that kind of crap up.. still do. Erosion of point material is caused by inferior/defective capacitor(condenser) function. The automaker knew they had a problem with the capacitors they were being supplied with. In printing that in the owner's manual the manufacturer was involving the operator, passing the buck, misleading the consumer, with the solution to their problem. Then, when/if the points burned up, the operator was induced into believing he was at fault for not following the procedure in the manual, instead of going to the dealership and insisting that his faulty points be replaced at no expense. On the other hand, down the road another operator found that (if the points didn't burn up), he was lead to believe that he was doing it right because good old Dodge Bros engineers were fuckin’ geniuses! That was reinforced because they heard of other people that had points burning up a lot, and they didn't! So, they imagined that following that drill printed in the manual was actually working. Sighhhhh............
I have heard of that, and it was said to actually help the life of the points considerably, but what a nuisance to have or to fix later. The right condensor (intended mostly to collapse the magnetic field quickly to produce a hotter spark) was supposed to also reduce erosion, but could never completely stop it. I have never run across one of those reversing systems myself, and believe that to be quite rare. I would rather not be bothered with so many unneeded and extra possible failure items in the system. I suppose others felt the same way, since it was not adopted very widely. It sounds cool, but I wonder if it ever became troublesome after a number of miles made the car old.... To change points polarity they would have to insulate the points from ground, add extra connections, and add a switching mechanism. That sounds like so many extra failure possibilities being added in exchange for small returns. Cool idea though.
I guess I should have added the ignition switch only turned to the right, so Driver had to impliment the alternating polarity. That would have saved 29Nash a heart attack. Dare-to-be-differant, the original ignition switch is quite rare, I'm looking for one now. Most have been replaced with normal switches and the wiring modified. BTW, the condensor is soldered into the bottom of the coil, don't think they planned to replace them.
Heart attack? Not now. But you could have measured my blood pressure off the scale in the past when I've changed out perfectly good breaker points because the owner of the car insisted based on misleading bullshit flim-flam from the auto makers. When a set of breakers gets that perfect grey texture on the contacts, (indicating a perfect balance between condenser and points), its a shame to throw them out just because the goddamned manufacturers recommended it be done on routine tuneups. As far as the condenser being soldered in place, your conjecture that this method of mounting means they weren't intended to be changed, you are wrong. It only means the mechanic changing the condenser needs to be smart enough to operate a soldering iron. Changing polarity has nothing to do with breaker point longevity. Both surfaces of the goddamned points are the same. If there is irregular erosion of the contacts it's due to an imbalance in the circuit, possibly a loose connection, a high(or low) resistance in the circuit, but in most cases a capacitance malfunction. Don't change the polarity, change the condenser. Edit; I don't mean to imply that all of this applies to the past. I'm running points ignition on two jalopies.
I have observed well-worn points where one side was almost gone, like a valley, with the other side built up, like a mountain. But they did not look like burnt points where the condensor was known bad. What causes this?
I think, now mind you I think. When point contacts show a build up on one or the other, it's directly related to electricity following the path of least resistance and taking contaminants with it. If that doesn't sound good to you then I'd say it's because we use to use kryptonite in the contacts and one is facing north, if you happen to be going west, and the other is facing south. If your not going north or south, then chances are your going west or east. Kryptonite contacts operate best at lower levels of oxygen. If it's a good day as far as weather goes and the air is good, (less water grains) then I'd say for that day at least your points will be depositing material from north to south. But only if you are going west for most of the day. It looks good for tomorrow to go east. In other words, just put the points in and drive it.Oh, yeah I forgot, since the spark is jumping from the ground contact to the arm on your points, you probably have a neg ground system JMO. Lippy
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