Wide Five Help. Adapting front and rear.

I want to appologize up front for the length of this post. Bear with me, please! I could use some help.

After doing searches until my eyes were bleeding, I think I found I may have a special case for adapting Early Ford Wide Fives... well, in the rear anyway.

So let's get started.

Looks like I'll be running 36-39 Ford Wide Five's on my Model A project and I would like to run some nice drum brakes on this. I would like to know how to adapt them w/OUT using some new fangled billet racing adapter. I open to "tasteful machining" of old parts, but would prefer to stay away from newer stuff. I'm even open to canibilizing some wide five drums to make an adapter if needed... keep reading...

Okay, the front will be easiest, I presume. I'm thinking early Ford spindles

probably 37-41, but that's open for debate. Wilson Welding brake ***emblies:

OR the finned:

I would like to use Buick drums on the front and have the middles hogged out and adapted like this:
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94865&highlight=wide+five+buick
Or maybe just use the wide five drums with the Wilson ***emblies (if that's even possible). All in all though, I will be driving the hell out of this car and I would like to use a new(er) drum where possible. Would be nice to get more than just a few more turns out of the drum and then have to start my search all over again for a drum that will work for my application.

Let's hear your thoughts on the front.

Now for the rear... more complicated or maybe easy. Not sure...

I haven't purchased a rear end yet, but am leaning heavily towards a Winters or Frankland complete rear, set up for big bearing Ford axles.

What can I use to adapt the wide fives to something that will work with big bearing Ford axles? Should I try to adapt 9" brakes somehow to the wide five? Adapt Buick drums some how? Early drums? what the hell do I do here? Has anyone tackled this dilemma already?

Let's here your expertise and input. I know this isn't going to be the easiest adaptation, but I'm determined to make the wide fives work without looking "modern".

Again, sorry about the length. I appreciate you reading though. Thanks!
Scooter

 

I always forget who built this, and I know it's not quite the same situation, but what the hell did these guys use?



Is that just some completely one-off, CNC or cast stuff, or are those centers actually from something? They look larger than the early Ford wide fives.

Anyway, back to the case at hand....

1) How do I go from early Ford spindles to brakes to adapting the wide fives in the front?
2) How do I go from a newer, complete QC with big bearing Ford axles to brakes, to early wide fives in rear?

 

If I remember correctly, they're one-offs from Colorado Custom Wheels.
I have the SRM issue at home, I'll look tonight.
Tucker

 

Who built that car? I can't remember to save me!

 

if you run a "floater" type rear in your car there are quite a few old dirt track racing rear drums out there that will give you the look your after

try old racing flea markets and such
good luck
zach

 

I don't know about using Buick drums, but the Ford drums will interchange...'37-'39 (not '36) will work with anything that works with a '40-'48 drum. So I don't think there should be a problem with the Wilson backing plates.
I'm going to use the steel addapters from Speedway to mount wide fives on my 9". I removed the screw in 5/8" studs and pressed in 1/2" studs (that tip came from another hamber on here) The hub caps won't mount with the big 5/8" lug nuts. The addapters wouldn't look right though if you don't plan to run caps.

 

I have one easy answer for the easy end of the car...'37-39 drums will work with the Lincoln brakes. Done.
On the other end, I don't know nuttin, but I'm pretty sure circle track hardware exists that will give a possibility.

 

I checked out those Speedway adapters...

They're not totally aweful looking, but not really traditional either. I know at some point I may have to compromise for the rear. I will not be running caps or covers unless I run full spun aluminum moon discs. As for this Speedway adapter though... will it fit the dimensions of the lugs on the early Ford Wide Fives??? This would be a super simple solution if I mounted it directly to a 9" Ford type drum brake or a converted Buick type drum, but the pattern dimensions concern me also, I would like to see how that looks mounted up if anyone has a picture...

I think I'm going to toss out the Buick drum idea for the front and go with a Wilson finned backing and run a 39-ish juice drum to mount the wheel right up. Simple and stupid, no machining required... BUT... is anyone repoping this drum or am I stuck with looking for originals?

Stupid question about the rear... can I run Wilsons on the rear also or are those intended for an early Ford spindle pattern only? I feel stupid asking that, but that might clear up a couple things. If they will work, I presume I will have to make some modifications to the b-plate to add an E-brake ***mebly?

 

This one might be okay if I had it powdercoated black also:

REALLY offensive otherwise though!! I HATE billet looking ****!!

Does anyone know of a CAST adapter??

 

Here is some old dirt track that might give you some Ideas. I have used some of this and a ford 9" to build a wide five rear end. The long axle tube is a QC tube can be bought at about any circle track swap meet the safty hubs can be found there also. The short snout is cut off an old timken 3/4 rear end. They can be machined and bolted or welded to just about any fr spindal to use safty hubs on front as well. The drum hub is an old franklend (I think)for 12'' breaks. The other is an old HRE disk break hub. The hre would match looks of the stock 38-9 ford fronts and could be machined to fit Buick fined drums. What I have done is taken the 9" housing cut the ends of, welded the QC tubes in it and made a floater. Just a thought

 

Cool! I would dig something like that for the rear!! One thing we definitely DON'T have around here are swap meets related specifically for old circle track stuff. Actually the closest REAL swap meet is probably Pamona.

I would like to have the option to run moon disks on my wheels, so I would have to go with something snub nosed, but yes, those look awesome! I don't suppose anyone makes anything like that for the rear now, do they?

I've been searching around for anything related to drum brakes and wide fives (outside the HAMB) and pretty much came up empty. If anyone exists, I would like to find someone who is reproducing 37-39 drums with the wide five pattern. Anyone know of anyone reporducing those???

 

Here's the speedway addapter mounted to a wheel, I think it looks bad without a cap.

 

YUCK!! I'll skip that idea. Thanks for posting that!!!!

I just found these on Ebay, but they are WAAAAAYYYY expensive! Might be justifiable later, but not right now! Going to check with them to see if they are still making them.


They are drilled to fit the two-piece hubs is all I can figure out. Like these. anyone know where I could find a supply of these hubs? Were they all 2-piece?

 

"I always forget who built this, and I know it's not quite the same situation, but what the hell did these guys use?"

The roadster pickup above was built by Pinkee's Rod Shop in Colorado.

-Ryan

 

YES! Thank you! I can't remember that for some reason...

 

Those are the frankland that bolt to the early safty hubs like I have. Some of the hubs looked just like the hre but without the roter mount on the back. You can see the lip on the back of this HRE hub those drums fits this lip. Then you drill your stud holes and the stud hold the drum to the hub. The other way was to machine the buicks to what the franklands are

 

Those wide-5's with the windows are mine. They're from early '36 p***enger cars. The rears are two-piece....the fronts are a one-piece casting.

I'm converting them to disc brakes....using JFZ sprint car calipers and rotors.

 

What are you running for a rear axle? How are you adapting the axles to the wide five hubs? I'm ***uming these are the rears?

 

This should show the lip better

 

I was thinking that hogging out the buick drums might work just as well. Like the link I posted at the top. I might be able to do it with some other models of drums for that matter. Would be nice to be able to replace things that are being made again or still.

 

Makes sense! And thanks for taking the pictures!!

 

If you use the studs to hold the drum on the wide five a large bolt circle it will take a rather large break drum.

 

I agree completely. What do the later many finned Buik drums look like? Did anyone else make an aluminum finned drum that would be big enough to cut the face out and mount the wide-five hubs into like was done with the 45 finned Buicks in that first link? Another make maybe? The hole pattern won't matter if the face is getting mostly removed anyway, right?

 

I'm using a '47 Ford pickup banjo rearend. No adapting necessary. Yes.....those are the rears.

 

ARRG! I was hoping you would say you have something other than an early Ford rear. Bummer!

Doesn't anyone else on the HAMB use wide fives with a 9" or something other than a banjo rear?

 

I really don't know of any easy way to put a wide five type drum on a 9"...I wouldn't even think about putting studs into the outside of a standard brake drum (they're way too flimsy). And I'm guessing you're going to be running them without caps...so any type of addapter with the second set of lugs showing will look funny. But how about using something like the speedway plates with a dummy cover that sandwiches behind the wheel and covers the addapter? Maybe made out of an old steel funnel, or some of those moon type disc's with the big spike coming out of the middle...cut the end off and attach a castle nut and cotter pin and it would almost look like an early Ford drum, and cover up the second set of lugs.

 

try places like MidWest Motor Sports or Day Motorsports for wide 5 adapters I seem to remember that there are brake drums that fit ford 9 inch rears and take the wide 5 wheels the drum mounts with the standard bolt pattern and the wheel mounts on the outer studs get a copy of Stock Car Magazine or Circle Track off the news stand plenty of suplier there

 

Here's the cheapo hillbilly sollution.

Take a wide five cap...cut the outer portion off and flatten the lip a little, punch five holes and run it behind the wheel flange. It has a nice crown to it that just about matches the front drum, it'll cover the second set of lug nuts, and it's free if you've got the caps. And you could paint the whole thing so it matches up with the open front drums better.

 

I used the 39 Wide Five wheels and caps on my old 29 RPU a few years ago..I had an adapter made at local machine shop...It was just a slab of 1/2" thick hot rolled steel cut in a circle with a centering hole cut to fit the axle flange on my 9" rear end... then he drilled the small 5 on 4-1/2" pattern to bolt it to rear end.ext we drille dthe 5 on 10-1/2' wide five pattern on and I pressed in some replacement 1/2" lugs for a 9" there and tack welded em on the rear for locking them...it works great and was cheap and does not offset the wheel but the 1/2'"........

 

I was thinking about a cover too, but then I got to thinking about how much I hate non-functional items. I think a "cover/disguise" will bug me after awhile.

What's the diameter of a 9" ford brake? It's 12", right?

I just checked with those two race suppliers mentioned and only saw standard adapters (plates, billet junk), no drums. Does anyone even make drums anymore that aren't stock?

I think what I need to do at this point, is try and get ahold of some 37-39 wide five drum and hub set ups. I'm ***uming they're not super desirable unless you're running a stocker, so maybe I can score some around my area for a decent price.

Still need a source for 37-39 brake drums if someone knows. I will probably just run those on the front if I don't modify the **** out of another drum.