Will the H.A.M.B. be a political force?

This is just a message board....the best**************in son of******en message board EVER.....But it is still just a message board for hotrodders and I belive thats what the founder whats it to be... and STAY.

 

What the heck have some of you guys been smokin?

I'm with Roadstar.

Fact is if you take a look around here, this place is about buildin neat old style hot rods usin what's available and doin it the old fashioned way, under a shadetree with the help of your buddies. So the question is, no matter how many of us there are here on the H.A.M.B, do the magazine advertisisers really care? We don't buy their stuff, we make it, or scrounge it from junkyards or swapmeets etc. Sure there may be some trendsetters here but fact is, we're mostly grass roots low buch do it yourself hot rodders and big business doesn't really give a***** coz we don't spend like the folks who are not regular and active H.A.M.B.ers.

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We are over 4300 members strong, our membership has alomst doubled in the last year alone!

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How many are actively involed in the car hobby and how many just registered on the off chance they may wish to participate in a discussion about music,****s, or tatoos?

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We will very soon if not presently have they power to influence the product market.

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Considering what I've suggested above about our buying habits, how are we going to become such an influence?

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Whether its the magazines, suppliers or manufactuers, we can be a force to be heard and make a difference.

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How many mainstream magazine owners are there? With how many****les? You don't think Primedia would like to trim the list a little? What sort of numbers do the mags targeted directly at us pump out each month by comparison?

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How well would speedy Bill do if he got boycotted by 4300 custumers until he rectified the sittuation with Vern?

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Probably wouldn't even notice it, his core business is high priced, high turnover race car stuff, the hot rod parts are purely incremental as I see it.

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Or primedia got subscritions cancelled or boycotted?

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And how many times has R&C been killed off already? Do Primedia really need all the****les thay have?

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Like it or not money talks and we spend a lot on our little "hobby"

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Not with the companies who advertise in the mainstream magazines we don't! Especially when we're compared to mainstream rodding, who on the other hand, really do spend a mountain of money on new and or repro parts.

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Think about all the Lurkers out there that have not signed up yet...

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So why are they only lurkers? Maybe coz they are mainstream chequebook rodders only here out of curiosity and with no beef against their suppliers and the businesses they support.

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Think about that we all have a few friends that should be on the HAMB ...

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Sure, I have many hot rodding friends who don't understand why I frequent this place. They've had a look in and won't ever officially visit and certainly won't participate because they know what kinda tongue lashing they are likely to get if they let on what they like and how they are are building it.

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Our demagraphic is amazing.
We are worldwide.
We are multicultural.
Our age group ranges from 16 to the "elders"
Our income level ranges from "Can I borrow some gas money to Jay Leno.

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And we are the minority. As far as the publishers and advertisers are concerned, we're not their customers and besides we don't count for much at all. Fact is, they wouldn't even notice us if we all went missing. Don't believe it, just ask Tex Smith next time ya see him, what killed Hot Rod Mechanix. Lack of advertisers, coz the mag was advocating do it yerself, which is what we're all about isn't it?

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We will have the power, it will be ours if we would like to take it....

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How many hot rodders in the US? A couple of million, or a lot more? Based on the NSRA estimate of 2 mil that makes us less than one quarter of one percent. Even if there were 5,000 H.A.M.B. members that still only makes us just on one quarter of one percent. Now add all the other customers the businesses in question are marketing too, the racers, the street machiners, truckers and yes, even the******* ricers, then redo the math.

Nope, I'm sorry we are so insignificant as a market force that nobody wouldn even notice if each and every one of us here on the H.A.M.B. just up and vanished.

Of course, united with our brother car nuts, it could be a whole different ballgame. But*****, we've kinda burnt a few bridges there haven't we?

 

Anybody else want to post on this topic? Before you do read and reread Carps post it says it all. When push comes to shove we aren't even a fly speck on a rhino's****. Let's think about what Ryan gave as the reason for this board and what Roadstar restated, get back out in the garage and build something cool.
If that doesn't interest you get ahold of Hillary Clinton, she might be interested in beating a dead horse. A cause like this just might put her where she belongs, trying to keep track of who her husband is curently f**king.
I'll stick to my origional post and state that WE ARE NOT A FORCE when it comes to influencing big business.

Frank

 

hmmn.. very interesting.
My post was not a rally cry or a doctrine for a political agenda, but merely a forsight of what may come in the future. Think I'm wrong? All it takes is a few individuals to reconize the fact there is money to be made off of us. That we can become part of their market share.
Carps I respect your opinion, but I do not agree.
But there will always be opinions...
Think that we are do it yourselfers? What do we build hot rods out of?
Steel, welders, tools, wire, pistons, bearings, etc.
All it takes is a shift in the advertisers, because design guy said it well. Magazines make room for the advertisers. Ergo they make room for the money. Its a sad fact that greed runs this world of ours. Once you come to terms with this you can if you choose use this to your advantage. One prime example is, and I hate to bring this up but the dreaded....
Von Dutch Originals
They took a symbol of us 1% ers and MARKETED it to people who don't even know who the !@#$ Ken Howard was. Now they are so sucesfull at it they are opening up stores at the highest rent areas in the nation. Damn, even abelugo's parody of von drunk T-shirt is already being copied and sold on venice beach as we sit here.
Just look at our HAMB calender, how many of you bought it because the proceeds will go back into the HAMB, or how many of you bought it because it was a kick**** calender? Either way we spent money and fast, the intial run is all but sold out!
All it takes is for some lurker or member to come up with a product we want. Then advertise is a mainstream magazine and that in turn will shift the focus a little to a magazines content. let me give you a example: lets say someone directs a product to the HAMB members for 50 bucks and lets say its a really good product that 500 people want ( I'm using the # of calenders for this one.) That puts $25,000 in his product gross. Now lets say he advertises in a well known hot rod magazine he can easily triple that first number making it $100,000 bucks in his pocket. On one item! But only if the magazine readership turns toward articles encompass we want to read. So presure it put on the magazine. Change then happens.
We all want in one way or another to return to a simpler time. That is very marketable.
H.A.M.B. the journal of TRADITIONAL hot rodding and customs.
This has nothing to do with Ryan or what he created. It is not in his control.
But a BYPRODUCT of what we have become.
The only way to avoid this would be to kill the hamb. But I think we are even to big for that to happen. Even if Ryan pulled the plug, The HAMB would resurface on some yahoo message board or its equal. it wouldn't be as good but it would be there.
As long as someone wants to build a hot rod. The HAMB will survive.


WHO IS JOHN GALT?

 

I like the fact this place is so independent while boards like streetrodstuff or hotrodders are part of a supplier's web site. We don't want to change the world, we just want to keep zoning enforcement out of our backyards. Knowledge is power. Let's leave it at that.

 

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My post was not a rally cry or a doctrine for a political agenda, but merely a forsight of what may come in the future. Think I'm wrong? All it takes is a few individuals to reconize the fact there is money to be made off of us. That we can become part of their market share.
Carps I respect your opinion, but I do not agree.

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My opinion is based on now.

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Think that we are do it yourselfers? What do we build hot rods out of?
Steel, welders, tools, wire, pistons, bearings, etc.

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Yup, and none of the people I get that stuff from advertise in any kind of Hot Rod Magazine. I need their stuff, I have to track them down, buy the magazines they advertise in or let my fingers do the walking etc.

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Magazines make room for the advertisers. Ergo they make room for the money.

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Which is why they won't change in our favour too quickly, because there's simply not enough of us and we don't want what their advertisers offer. The tool and consumable companies won't advertise in hobby magazines because there's greater opportunity and reach for them in the trade magazines that go directly to thier core group of regular customers. These businesses survive on high volume repeat business and hobby guys don't buy tools in volume on a regular basis. That's why you don't see the Snap on truck cruising the suburbs pulling into every hot rodder's driveway and why they do pull into every auto dealership etc.

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Its a sad fact that greed runs this world of ours.

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Been that way since the beginning of time, don't figure it's about to change.

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Once you come to terms with this you can if you choose use this to your advantage. One prime example is, and I hate to bring this up but the dreaded....
Von Dutch Originals They took a symbol of us 1% ers and MARKETED it to people who don't even know who the !@#$ Ken Howard was.

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That's why the marketers have no need to be concerned about us as a group. We didn't buy the Von Dutch Originals because we saw it as an overpriced ripoff of Ken Howard's legacy and stayed away from it. So they 'marketed' it as exclusive and trendy so now every cashed up Tom,***** and Bwooce is wearing it.

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Now they are so sucesfull at it they are opening up stores at the highest rent areas in the nation. Damn, even abelugo's parody of von drunk T-shirt is already being copied and sold on venice beach as we sit here.

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I'm not sure I get your point here. Mine being that, I agree and you're confiring what I said about them not needing us or even know they are missing us, coz they've got a whole bunch of cashed up yuppie buyers who think the stuff is cool and makes them stand out from the ordinary crowd.

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Just look at our HAMB calender, how many of you bought it because the proceeds will go back into the HAMB, or how many of you bought it because it was a kick**** calender?

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I don't use a calendar, I have a PDA and computerised diary. Did it really make a difference that I didn't order a H.A.M.B. Calendar? I don't know for sure, but I'd suggest most bought it to support the H.A.M.B. which would be my only reason to buy one.

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Either way we spent money and fast, the intial run is all but sold out!

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No denying that, but answer my previous question. Did everybody buy one? Based loosley on the numbers I'm thinking that's only around 12% penetration into the membership. Do you know exactly who didn't buy and why? If it was remarketed directly at the checquebook rodders, would they all buy one? Based on 12% that's 240,000 potential sales in the outside world.

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All it takes is for some lurker or member to come up with a product we want. Then advertise is a mainstream magazine and that in turn will shift the focus a little to a magazines content. let me give you a example: lets say someone directs a product to the HAMB members for 50 bucks and lets say its a really good product that 500 people want ( I'm using the # of calenders for this one.) That puts $25,000 in his product gross. Now lets say he advertises in a well known hot rod magazine he can easily triple that first number making it $100,000 bucks in his pocket. On one item! But only if the magazine readership turns toward articles encompass we want to read. So presure it put on the magazine. Change then happens.

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There's a few other issues need to be considered here. Starting with economic production volumes. With many items, due to tooling and production requirements, there's an economic upper limit. So, let's say there's a potential market for 25,000 Calendars based on the reach of advertising in mainstream mags. However, the tooling is only good for 24,000 units before it needs to be replaced. Thus it becomes most economical to make only 24,000 units. The fact that there won't be enough to meet demand is a good thing. It means that the item can be priced at a premium and there's no need to bother about the small group of potential buyers on the H.A.M.B. because there's only 500 of them which still leaves us 500 units short of meeting the mainstream demand. So again we become insignificant in the overall scheme of things.

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We all want in one way or another to return to a simpler time. That is very marketable.

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The sad fact remains, that one way or the other we are actually going to get screwed by big business and there's*******all we can do about it.

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H.A.M.B. the journal of TRADITIONAL hot rodding and customs. This has nothing to do with Ryan or what he created. It is not in his control. But a BYPRODUCT of what we have become. The only way to avoid this would be to kill the hamb. But I think we are even to big for that to happen. Even if Ryan pulled the plug, The HAMB would resurface on some yahoo message board or its equal. it wouldn't be as good but it would be there.
As long as someone wants to build a hot rod. The HAMB will survive.

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Therein is the good part of all this! What we have here is more than we might think and possibly not too far removed from your original 'idea'. Ryan has actually created a micro economy. Think about it. A bunch of hot rodders all needing the same stuff and all coming from different walks of life with different skills and abilities. We no longer even need the mainstream ecnomy as we can barter within the group for work or parts and in turn our own little economy flourishes without the need for us to become involved in somebody else's politics or marketing war.

Of course if we do need to step up and fight the********s, count me in!

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WHO IS JOHN GALT?

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WHO CARES?

 

Well, whoever John Galt is, we have a street named after him here in Omaha....and as far as boycotting Speedy Bill for copying and selling Vern's part?
No........
If there have been any copyright laws broken, Vern should take his case to the courts. If not, maybe Vern shoulda gone through legal channels to protect his "invention". If he had, Speedy Bill couldn't touch it. Copying and improving a product [even if it's just the price of said product] is just a part of capitalism and it's capitalism that built the financial backbone of our society.
There are already protective safeguards in place and are effective is used....

 

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Politics are gay.

I like driving Hot Rods and "Breaking" stuff.

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I'm with Bob on this one.
TZ

 

I have to agree with Deyomatic, The HAMB is definately a powerful force, because there are as many people on here.

Any buisness or service that has to deal with HAMBers is going to be be in for a real suprise, if there product*****s, service*****s or any other bull***** happens. A lot of people are going to find out about it, and that's about as political as I think the HAMB should ever get.

 

Carps, You have to be a lawyer. Only lawyers like to tear apart other people's statements piece by piece and you did that twice. Lawyers like to do that to distract from the whole meaning of a article or statement. Which I have to comend you, you did rather well. It is very well that you play the devils advocate as is needed, but some people may not get that little game.

WHO IS JOHN GALT?

You know who he is and you know I'm right.

 

So Fastsporty, is this what you want the HAMB to become? A merchandising entity? Let me see, how about VonHAMB Rockabilly, Tatoo, Greasy***** that no one else wants Origionals. The product line could include trim with pealed chrome, cracked and frozen flatheads, and those elusive 3 day old mint E&J headlights.
If you take one step down that road the HAMB is history, and I REPEAT no mainstream companies are going to change ANY policy they have as a result of a couple of hundred disgruntled hot rodders who account for less than 1% of their sales. Thats taking into account there would actually be 200 HAMBr's who would boycot one particular business. THEY DON'T NEED US!!!!!!!
For every set of finned aluminum heads Edelbrock sells they sell 10,000 intakes for SBC's. In todays market volume sales will beat specialty items every time.

Frank

 

HEY GUYS!

I invented this really great way to make drop axles outta*****ty stockers, ya wanna buy my plans?








Ok, I am SO kidding....

 

I remember a couple of times where a HAMBER was having a problem with a business (damn I wish my memory was better...then I could get more specific) and Ryan contacted those businesses and simple let them know who he was and represented....and the problems got solved I think one was a Heidt's crossmember.

Somebody pays attention....

When the time comes that we need to stand up and fight the BS Count me in !!!!

 

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Carps, You have to be a lawyer.

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Sorry to disssapoint, but I'm just a guy who works in the car making biz. For the most part I have little but contempt for the law and the stupid legals systems that control our freedom and lives.

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Only lawyers like to tear apart other people's statements piece by piece and you did that twice. Lawyers like to do that to distract from the whole meaning of a article or statement.

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Sorry again to dissapoint but us engineers are taught to do that so we understand all the ramifications and potential flaws or problems with our designs etc.

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Which I have to comend you, you did rather well. It is very well that you play the devils advocate as is needed, but some people may not get that little game.

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Not playing any games, just trying to help make sure we all understand what we are discussing here. And not trying to offend anyone either , although that's always difficult when we discuss things on line like this.

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WHO IS JOHN GALT? You know who he is and you know I'm right.

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Sorry, but I figure he's somebody out of American History. I do know who Ralph Nader is, but to be frank I've not heard of John Galt until now. Or if I have, I figure I must have considered whatever he did must have been so insignificant (in my mind) that I simply ignored the lesson or forgot it after it was no longer important to remember it. I'd be pleased if you could enlighten me.

 

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I remember a couple of times where a HAMBER was having a problem with a business (damn I wish my memory was better...then I could get more specific) and Ryan contacted those businesses and simple let them know who he was and represented....and the problems got solved I think one was a Heidt's crossmember.

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I too remeber that one and wasn't the way Ryan helped resolve the issue much better than what could have turned into one heluva monsterous and expensive*****fight?

Also I think on that score we should give Gary Heidt some credit for his part in quickly responding to the problem, regardless of what pressure was bought to bear. He could still have fought it and likey may have won had it gone to arbitration.


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When the time comes that we need to stand up and fight the BS Count me in !!!!

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Me too! But that's a whole different issue to advocating becoming a political entity in order to get what we want and be damned to the majority, who want something else.

Maybe I've interpreted wrongly what being a political force means.

 

the HAMB is for hot rods and customs,done up tradtionally,

 

Rocky -- Your defense of Speedy Bill ripping off Vern as being a righteous smart-business move really puzzles me. As you see it, Vern's a dummy for not spending thousands of dollars to patent or copyright a simple device that might generate a couple of thousand dollars in sales each year. And Speedy Bill is a smart businessman for stealing Vern's product and having it manufactured in Taiwain to make a few extra bucks on each sale and eliminate Vern from the equation. Is that about right?

FWIW, I've heard from several folks who've purchased Speedy Bill's new low-cost drum retaianers, saying that they don't fit. Taiwanese knockoffs not fitting?! Scandalous!

I'm surprised and disappointed that you can't see the ethiical failure in this situation. For all that, I hope we can deal with this as a disagreement on principal and remain friends.

Your pal,

Mike

 

any body build anything cool lately?, whats going on in those garages out there?

i am back out to the shop, later

RACEFAB

 

Listen ALL!I am not the sharpest tool in the drawer-but I think Fastsporty was just making an observation- not a call to revolution.[lets go into the little Hamb Powder room ]and freshen up[so we wont look silly]

 

If the manufac....oh never mind.

 

Ryan "Galt" Cochran

 

Ryan -- Think about some of the ideas we've kicked around with regard to a viable e-mag. If you want to pursue it I'm game. I have time, plus I now have a comfortable income so don't need to place a burden on the e-mag during its lean, growing times.

Something to think about . . . .

Mike

 

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I work in some very strong and compitent markets every day and, quite frankly, the recreational vehicle publishing industry is not a smart or agile one. It's just sitting there... t-ed up... waiting to be smashed by anyone with some creative ideas...

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"oshkosh monthly"?

 

I have to agree. It's definitely one hobby where there are no spectators without Walter Mitty ambitions. A magazine that touted itself as dedicated to the serious car crafter would corner the market. If you want people to join a club, make it exclusive. You are talking cars and not Winnebagos aren't you?

 

..........all I know is that I am an uninvited guest here. I have made a lot of friends, learned a lot, been entertained (and pissed off a few times). RYAN is the "keeper of the flame." Whatever direction he takes the HAMB, I fully support. I owe all of you so much, this is the least I could do.
It seems as though the HAMB's voice HAS been heard. Along with that visibility comes responsibility. We DO have the ability to be an influance......let's strive to be a positive one........

 

We should CRUSH them!

Teach them a lesson! Retain their competant staff and dispatch the others...

Subvert the dominant paradigm...

Create a NEW WORLD RECREATIONAL VEHICLE ORDER!

...and get rich in the process.

Lemme rephrase that, Can I get rich too, please? I'd make a terrific Propaganda Minister(tm)!



(PS, If Ayn Rand is still alive, she needs to be beaten about the head with a 2x4)

 

I suggest we look at the bigger picture. The HAMB represents an eclectic group of traditionalists who are certainly more "hands-on" than the majority.

In the big picture, hot rodding, hot rodders, and hot rods are all still "quirky hobbies" to the vast majority of America, and rodding is (by and large - no offense to our overseas pals) an American thing.

Rodders have a voice in Washington, it's called SEMA, and it works for us. We should support them wholeheartedly, as they're the ones keeping an eye on legislation and making sure no stupid laws get passed to make our passion illegal. When you consider what it is they do, it's quite incredible.

I'll get back to the HAMB in a sec, but go with me on this for a minute.

To sell a new car in the USA, a manufacturer must go through an insane amount of safety and emissions tests. Not so for hot rodders.

To sell a used car in many states, the car must pass either a visual safety inspection or an emissions test. Not so for hot rods.

You cannot drive your new 100 hp Hyundai without wearing a seatbelt, even though the car has crumple-zone engineering, air bags, energy-absorbing bumpers, etc. If you want to hop in your '23 T with the 700-horse big block, no bumpers, no fenders, and no seat belts, go right ahead. That's fine.

Thanks to SEMA. Because of SEMA we can still build ratty rods and primered kustoms the way we want to, and they're not illegal. You can say it's because of "nostalgia" if you'd like, but it's not. It's because of money.

The hot rodding industry cranks over 7.3 billion into the economy every year, and that doesn't even estimate the money generated and moved due to sales of cars. That's just parts. SEMA is a political force because the money cannot be ignored.

Okay, so, back the HAMB. As a group of do-it-ourselvers who don't buy a ton of parts, there's not going to be much "influence" here. With regard to using the HAMB to strongarm manufacturers, we'd be better served organizing "group buys" of parts we'd all like, and developing a positive working relationship with the better parts makers out there.

Do you want the HAMB to be known as "that group of greasers who blacklists guys they don't agree with", or "that group of greasers who has their***** together and orders in bulk to save their members a few coins"

Support SEMA. Organize group buys to establish the HAMB as a positive force within the industry. Sell cool calendars with HAMB rides. Always be nice to everyone when wearing HAMB gear.

If you'd like to see the HAMB gain credibility, this is a good way.

Scotch~!

 

all I have to say is - Who on here has an income like Jay Leno?? Because if you do you need to be spreading the wealth.

no seriously are some of you millionaires? cause that nuts..

 

i'm with bobbleed