Woodie Wagon info, how is body fastened to the frame?

When building a phantom woodie, or woodie from scrach, how should one fasten the body to car frame, so that frame twisting wouldn't bend and damage the wood, or at least keep it minimum? Is that an issue about woodies at all, or not that critical? Pics are welcome.

Other concideration, when building from an all steel donor car, then would it be prefferable to keep original steel floor and frame mounts, and fasten wood to floor?

 

Sounds like you answered your own question...
Yes you would prefferably use a metal floor pan.attached in an OEM fashion with cushions etc etc... from an existing car and build from that....like real factory woodys mostly were done.
Remember wood expands and moves with changes in humidity and weather conditions -so watch your panel clearances carefully.....

 

altraditional,

What is the original frame you are going to use ?.

I have what was originally a 1931 Model A US Mail Truck ( See Avitar ) and the rear of the body is bolted to 2X4 oak runners 4 up and 2 across.

Then there are cross pieces oak 4 wide and 2 up set flat across the top of the runners.

The body sits on top of this oak sub frame.

Before I install one of my big block bangers in the truck I will replace most of the sub frame and I will box and girder the frame to stiffen it up.

As it is now when I go up a driveway at an angle the wood body twists and squeaks quit a bit.

****
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When I started on my PHANTOM Woodie my first thought was to attach the inner structure to the frame similar to a unibody. After much discussion with friends we felt the body could be twisted or tweaked if the frame flexed. Changed mounting to six pads to isolate the body. If you use thick rubber, over 1/2 inch thick, the body will flex at the pads. Final decision at this time is to use wood between the pads and body mounts, possibly webbing to cut noise transfer.

 

If you ride in a real woodie, they creak and clunk and make all kinds of noises as they flex. They are built to accept movement.

 

If you girder the frame before you box it won't flex.

It is almost scary how rigid the frame becomes when girdered.

The reason that Box Girder Bridges are built the way they are is that in order for the box to twist or bend in any direction the flat girders have to stretch in one direction and compress in the other direction.

I use an ordinary kitchen match box to illustrate the box girder strength in comparison to an ordinary box beam.

The outside of the match box is the part that slides off of the actual match box.

That is similar to a box beam and if you try to support any weight on the top of that piece it will flatten.

If you insert a diagonal piece of card board into that piece it will then support some weight.

The first picture is the match box outer sleeve. the flat piece of cardboard paper that retains the matches in the box and the actual match box.

The second picture is the outer shell with a 5 lb universal joint smashing it flat.

The third picture is the outer shell with the cardboard paper match retainer running diagonally through the outer sleeve of the box illustrating the principle of a boxed girder.

I am not trying to insult anyones intelligence but pictures are better that words and pictures with words are even better than pictures alone.

Anyway I use 1 1/2" X 1/8" strap cut in 6"to 8" strips welded top to bottom then bottom to top in a zigzag pattern the full length of the frame.

I also weld the middle of these strips to the inside of the frame rails and to the inside of the boxing plate.

The only way to weld the strips to the boxing plate is from the outside.

To do this I line up the boxing plate and mark the top and bottom junctions where the girder pieces meet top and bottom then draw a line on the outside of the boxing plate.

I then use an electric grinder wheel to grind a slot in the plate that exposed the side of the girder.

After welding the boxing plate in place I then come back and weld the girder to the boxing plate through the slot. This then is the 4th weld on the girder making them secure top, bottom and on each side.

Now in order for the boxed frame member to twist or flex it has to stretch the 1/8" girder strap in one direction and compress it in the other.

That is not going to happen in the normal manner that the frame is going to be used.

After the excess weld is ground off and the frame is primed you won't see the extra work that you have done but when you drive the car you will feel the improvement in control and the absence of squeaks and rattles.


I have several original Model A frames and if I pick up one corner of the frame it will deflect 3 or 4" just under its own bare weight.

After box girdering the frame I can exert 200 lbs of body weight jumping up and down on one corner of the frame and not deflect it 3/16th of an inch.

A few commercial frame builders girder the front half of the frame to strengthen it where the engine mounts but most of them do not do the same to the rear half.

It is not that much work to do the whole frame front to rear. After I figure out the engine, transmission and gas tank mounting I will install some X member bracing to give the frame even more rigidity.

****

 

badshifter,

You are right about early woodies being built that way however one of the reasons more of them didn't survive is that they worked them selves apart and this allowed water to get into the joints and further deteriorate them.

The only reason that there are any mail trucks around is that they were tightened, painted regularly and maintained by the US Postal service vehicle maintenance department until as late as 1956 when the last of them were retired from service.

The one that I have has most of the original wood and metal braces and I am fortunate that someone did some repairs along the way from the time it was retired until I purchased it a few years ago.

I treat the wood every year to a couple of coats of boiled linseed oil.

A previous owner cut the top down so that it will go under a standard garage door.

They also removed the divider and pocket door that was behind the driver and hacked up some of the interior top wood.

When I restore it I will make it into a 2 door station wagon or a Huckster truck. It won't be like any original Model A but will be unique in its self.

Having a firm foundation will do wonders for this truck. It is fun to drive now but I am always afraid that parts will fall off as I drive.

The sub frame is dry rotted pretty bad and some of the wood screws are loose.

People have said that I have a screw loose and I quess that they are right.

****