Would anyone be interested in a new racing class?

Root, do you have plans for this chassis?? I have several slant sixes just waiting to go in a fed. Turbo'd, supercharged or normally aspirated, it does not matter to me.
I'll stop working on the straight axel Valiant if this comes about and I can build my own chassis and be legal.

 

This type of racing ends up being "the man with the most money wins"...

Sam.

 

OK, what kinda speed parts are you gonna buy for a 283 or a 235?
There's stuff out there but if they are supposed to be a cast iron factory block and heads......what are you gonna buy aftermarket? A stroker crank from SCAT? Not for a 283......ok you pony up for aluminum rods and pistons...
maybe a roller cam?

 

I think I'll build something slow and cheap with the T frame I have.Something like the one Grim posted in the original thread.
Just for fun, nothing else.
I've got a 216 Chevy motor complete that I will stick in it.
Just for fun, nothing else.

Won't that be a hoot.
r

 

I really don't see the difference between this and the flathead class.....yeah my flattie is bone stock......It's all an honesty issue.

 

I seem to remember something about a bottle in a certain stude!

 

Will I be allowed to run my 276 DeSoto Hemi in this class?

 

I don't think that is the case at all.

As previously said, there will be no purse and no trophy.

You'd have to be some freaked out super-egomaniac to drop a load of cash into one of these things, and for what? Bragging rights? Can't build too many high dollar rides on bragging rights alone.

 

RPM costs money.

If you can figure out how to keep the rpm down,
you might stand a chance.

 

yeah root - i've got a 327 block wanting some action too

 

UnklIan, we still have the same shortblock assy. that dad ran in the 60's. He turned 9 grand religiously. He never had the money for the good rods, so he ran stock ones....the same ones that are in the Fly. The stock 265 came with a steel crank.

 

Keep in mind....these are only suggestions. I'm not laying down the rules. It's all just a big pipe dream I have had for years. I think Drag Racing will come around full circle.

 

This has been a kick in the ass to watch! In the other thread, they talked about limiting it to mostly stock flatheads and inliners to keep it oldtimey and lowbuck. As the excitement built, talk of overheads crept in, and now this thread. Human nature - go figure...Yeah, even with NOTHING on the line - no money, or even a trophy, human nature could bring this idea down before it gets up. Bragging rights are worth a lot more than money or trophys to a lot of us...

But I like the idea of a claimer rule, and if someone's willing to pay $1000 for a P&G pump, you could check cubic inches...

 

Can't you use one of those portable volume gauges like the dirt trackers use? They aren't a grand are they? Oh and I am not a fan of the Flatheads so I would never be able to run in the other class.......

 

The claimer rule would just ensure that people start dumping money into it.

I know that I will not be able to afford to build a car that will win.

I will however be able to afford to build a car and have fun.

If I have to give up an engine everytime my broke ass loses, I will no longer be able to afford it at all.

The biggest problem with it will be the same thing that eats up every other part of this whole mess that is supposed to be fun...

Races...
Clubs...
Shows...
Runs...

Keeping it simple.

Not alot of rules, not alot of bull shit.

 

Claimer rules are if you win and someone wants to buy your motor , they can.
I don't like claimer rules because I have seen some dirt trackers lose good motors and they end up with the other guys junk that nothing has been assembled right, piston holes different sizes etc. Just built to use as a protest motor. A one time use motor.

 

Keeping the Engine costs down could be pretty easy if you would agree to only use one kind (like a cheap Chevy crate), with hardly any modifications,
everybody uses the same Cam, Intake and Carb.
You might even be able to buy them in bulk and get a really good deal...
Same with the Chassis, maybe you could get a Chassis builder to make a number of Chassis' to get the ball rolling ( Or maybe it would be better to order the Chassis W/O any brackets and hardware to save some money, or maybe even just a pile of pre bent tubing...)

Or....

Just use what a lot of us have already.
A Steel Ford Based Hot Rod.
Agree on a Spec SBC and a control rear Tire, and let the rest kind of the rules kind of loose...

 

That's the P&G pump. Saw 'em on sale for a grand at Speedway, I think. Somebody here might prove me wrong (as usual)...

Bottom line is, I just love seeing all this enthusiasm for the drags here! I came here thinking I'd be kind of a loner, but man - people into Gassers, diggers, even old Super Stockers, and everyone seems to be into running their street cars at the track, too...What a nice surprise...Best of both worlds - street AND strip!
Okay, I'm done gushing. On with the show...

 

Well either way, that is what I mean.

What would be wrong with doing it for the hell of it?

 

actually,it might be the other way around.it would cost $2-3000 to assemble a decent Hemi,Nailhead or Rocket,just to end up racing against a guy with a junkyard SBC that he could care less if it throws a rod.

 

Hot Rod Magazine's "Fastest Street Car Shootout" series started as nothing but bragging rights.
The Factory Appearing/Stock Tire class for muscle cars is bragging rights only, and those guys are spending $60-$100 Grand to go 11s in concours-correct looking cars. The limiting factor with them is that they have to run Bias Ply tires!!! 6-inch stock G-70 Whatever tires! and they're running 11s in full sized heavy-ass '60s and '70s muscle cars. Through cast iron exhaust manifolds, no suspension mods.
Bragging rights can always get expensive.

I LOVE the idea of vintage drag classes. Get a real hardon for it. I always thought it be fun to revive the old classes from the early '60s. Cubic inch and aspiration based. Apples-to-apples racing.

If I sat down and were to write rules for this digger class, I think they'd look something like this:
No small block Chevy engines with a casting date after 1962, and a displacement of 283 cid. When is the last year for the 283?
Every engine would get checked for displacement, because I'd wanna eventually run my 401 Nailhead after starting with the 264.
Don't know anything about Ford displacements/years, but limit it to a 289.
Because the SBC and SBF are more modern and more parts/technology is available for them, their handicap would be the displacement limit.
For Olds Rockets, Buick Nailheads, Slant 6 Mopar, flat head, etc. go ahead and bump the limit up to 324, 322, 318 Poly Mopar, etc.
Come up with a decent size limit for Chevy, Ford and other Inline engines so they can compete too.
Gotta allow some of the baby Hemi engines too--again, a little research would specify which ones. No 354 or 392. Maybe keep the Baby Hemi held to the 300-inch limit.

Again, ALL engines would be tested for displacement.
No aftermarket engine blocks. After market heads for the Ford Flathead only.
Aspiration rules would keep initial costs down, and would help parts live longer too--Normally aspirated only? Yeah, blowers are cool, and Injection is great, too, but those systems aren't cheam by any means. Maybe limit it to specific carbs? Or outlaw specific carbs. Keep it to original AFB/WCFB carbs, Strombergs (including new castings), and a specific model of Holley carb. No Dominators, No Barry Grants, etc. If it takes off, maybe have one supercharged class, and one normally aspirated class.

Electronic Ignition or Magneto. No HEI conversions.
Transmissions could be difficult--but again, they could be limited, or wide open. You'll probably have guys spending gazillions on a built Power Glide, but that's can also be a cheap trans to put together. PLUS, there's safety equipment available for them.

Tires: Make them a class rule. Pick one or two specific slicks, and everyone has to run them. How about no wrinkle wall slicks?! Radir makes the pie crusts, and our own seudesled makes the Hurst slicks. Pick one or two, and go with the narrower of them. Nothing wider that a 10-inch?

Think small.
True, a lot of rules can be a pain, but look at making the doorway to the class very narrow, but the (class)room behind that door very big.

And if guys bitch about CID, "unfair" rules against SBC, SBF or early Hemi, well, too bad--life isn't fair. "Fair" is where farmers take their pet pigs and two-pound tomatoes.

And if the class is done right, we might be able to pick up a couple exhibition gigs at some of the other established Nostalgia drag races! Probably won't run for prize money, but might be able to get tow money, or at least won't have to pay to enter.

That'd be my nickel's worth.
I'd get a hoot out of running a 322 Nailhead. Or if I had to, the 264 I've got!
-Brad

 

You're right... it is an honesty issue. But you can sink a SHIT LOAD of money into something like this... and it's not like anyone would want to invest in any kind of chassis to use for one race. You're going to want to be able to race it year around. So all the safety gear applies.

Then, you have some guys who will spend 5k to build a digger and then some who will pay 15-20k... and that's when it isn't fair nor fun anymore.

Root, I have to tell you. I would be REALLY jazzed about this. In fact, if this idea would have come along before we built the BFD, I can gaurantee you we would have built a digger and not the altered. But it takes people with a lot of dedication to pull this off. You built a purpose built drag car, I did and Gordon did... just for the HAMB Drags. Our group did it for fun... and we have been runing our car all over CA since we built it. It was relatively cheap... but people on here don't know what cheap means when you build a drag car. Our rear end was $100, the body $500, the steel for everything $600, the 283 that is now in it was $500 to freshen up, the injection another 2k... that's $3700. But when we add up the reciepts with the safety gear, trailer... and all the other doo-dads... we come up with 15k in the whole experience!

I think there is enough people on this board that are able to build a car to race. What we need to do is band together on this and come up with a set of rules for two classes... one OHV and one for flatheads. Maybe we should sit down with ryan and first come up with a list of classes. THEN work towards rules. The problem I see is with people giving their input when they have no intention or no means of actually building a car. So the way I see it is if we sit down and come up with rules... people will either step up and build a car to compete in a class... or just bring their hot rod or custom as they have.

The idea here is to get as many people as we can to actually meet on a regular basis and BUILD SOMETHING!!

Agree?

Sam.

 

My proposal would be to have the following classes:

Vintage flathead rail job- flathead motors, stock frame rails, engine and driver between front and rear axles and stock (and stock width) front and rear axles. Built in the spirit of The BUG.

Vintage Slingshot- Pre '62 OHV motors, slingshot chassis, No forced induction, on gas, built in the spirit of The Scorpion.

60's gasser- Solid front axle, any motor, carbureted, on gas... built like... a gasser.

We could add more... whacha think?

Sam.

 

I'm all for guys building cars. I want to see guys having the same kind of fun my dad and all his buddies talk about. I agree that there will be money involved when safety is an issue.

I hate to be a naysayer but I just don't see any track owner letting 50 guys run that bring cars that would be considered illegal under NHRA regs. I love the idea of having flattie powered rails etc. but the whole issue is gonna hinge on the fact of safety and liability. If the diggers were built to NHRA cage specs, they could be raced at any track under bracket rules. I couldn't run my T at the local track because there was no roll bar. The 2004 Mustang convertible could.....just as long as that really strong canvas top was up.

Here's the classes I would like to see

A/Dragster Gas-up to 330 CID on race fuel or pump gas ( any motors as long as they are under the CID and a factory block/heads)

B/Dragster Gas - up to 300 CID on pump gas or race fuel ( any motors as long as they are under the CID and a factory block/heads)


A/ Dragster Fuel -up to 330 CID on methanol ( any motors as long as they are under the CID and a factory block/heads)

B/ Dragster Fuel - up to 300 CID on methanol ( any motors as long as they are under the CID and a factory block/heads)



Gas coupe and sedan- Full fendered cars, open to CID ? Gasser styled on pump gas

Altered coupe and sedan , same as above with fenders removed, engine setback allowed.

Still open to suggestions, criticism, ideas.....

 

Some further ideas from a rambler/kinda outsider on engines:

Would the bigger inch Hemi engines dominate the class pretty quickly?
Would the 283 Chevy--with it's infinite number of aftermarket parts (new and used) and cheap price dominate the class pretty quickly?

Is the point of the excercise to get a bunch of obsolete engines into obsolete-style FEDs and have a good ol' time just for the sake of doing it? Do we even want 9-grand capabable 283s involved?
The "obsolete" engines became obsolete for a reason--they don't run as good as a small block Chevy, Chrysler Hemi or small block Ford. If those engines aren't made less attractive for a guy to build to run this class, then that's what will end up dominating the class.

Personally, I'd get a lot more enjoyment running Inlines, Y-Blocks, Nailheads, very small cube Hemi engines and flattys. To be honest, if I never saw a SBC in a drag car it wouldn't hurt my feelings.
I feel like the idea is to get a bunch of guys who like oddball engines and obsolete performance to build stuff and have some fun with it in this proposed FED class.
All this was done before--the first time around. IIf we do it now and set it up to simply repeat history, than that's exactly what will happen. Look at the GoodGuys events--those diggers are running 8s in FEDs, in a class that was supposed to be exactly what is proposed here!

Maybe pick a cut-off date for block castings to help even things up: Chryslers 1953, Chevy 1956 or '57 (Those engines are surprisingly plentiful, by the way), Fords could be whatever the Y-block years were, Buicks 1956 (322 cid, '57 was the 364: too large), Olds 303-years, etc. etc.

And cast intakes only, or U-Fab style log intakes: No sheetmetal intakes.
And again, I think normally aspirated would be the way to get the most excitement/involvement in it. A blower and vintage blower manifold can quickly cost what the whole car might cost normally aspirated.

-Brad

 

Good points.

Maybe this is simpler for me because I've been a loser my whole life and have actually learned to enjoy it?

Some of the best fun I had at both HAMB drags was seeing how much fun the LOSERS had.

Have we forgotten the Rambler runoff? That was some of the funniest shit I've seen at a long time.

Someone ALWAYS wins, and yeah, they are happy.

But the real sport is losing your ass and enjoying the hell out of it.

I'm going to build one of these with a Buick Straight 8 in it and I'm gonna get my ass SMOKED and enjoy the hell out of it.

RASHY

 

Brad, I hear ya but I am trying to keep this fairly inexpensive. Try and find a transmission that will hold up to a weekend of beating behind a nailhead. A dynaslush? Nope....the trannys are the weak links.

The idea is for a guy that has a 283 out of his 61 BelAir 4 door to be able to run it on a budget...sure there will be different levels of expertise but....it's all about fun.

As far as the GG events....those guys are buying 17K dollar chassis and 10K in aftermarket 406's. They have lost their focus. It's a Newstalgia class.

I hear ya but you can't overlook the obvious. The SBC is and was the dominant motor at the track after '55. It's cheap and reliable and that's the motor of choice for me. I dig 265's and 283's. Ask anyone...I have been beating the wee block drum for a long time. Everyone tells me I could go faster, cheaper per ubic inch if I ran a bigger sbc. I just can't.

 

This is the plan I like because there were a lot of stock torq monsters out there that I'd love to put in a gasser and see what it'll do with a proper race chassis...!

And Sam..., I've always wanted to build a car like your altered...! but with one exception..., I'd design it to run a variety of Engine Tranny combinations to see how they would compare to each other using the same Chassis platform as a test bed...!

Of course I'd have to match the rear gear to the Torq and Horse power curve...!!

Wouldn't it be cool to show people what the different engines were capable of running in stock form if everything else was the same in a very light car...???

My 2 cents...!

 

This wouldn't even hafta be the Hamb Drags in '05. This could be in '06 or '07. That would give guys time to round up their stuff.
I really dig the idea of clubs getting together to build a car.
I can see The Kontinentals having a car...
maybe the guys from FlyRite, The Vultures, well you get the picture.