Would anyone be interested in a new racing class?

Why what wouldn't work? I explained why limiting the RPM of certain engines wouldn't work... was there another idea that you had?

Sam.

 

Sam I like what you have there except I think you should let the flathead guys in on it. And let them have aftermarket heads... But other than that it sounds pretty good. I won't do it for 2005 as I'm planning on driving my roadster to the HAMB drags and hopefully Bonneville. But I have everything I need for 364 Nailhead powered car sitting in the shop.... I'd run my roadster but it won't have a rollbar and it's got a '65 425 Nailhead... But I will build a car, probably an altered instead of a FED, unless I find a frame cheap...

 

All I saw was this.

If you want to expand on that, P/M me.
we are burning up Wavelength.

 

Sounds great Sam. I too am in favor of allowing the flatheads to run. How about with fuel and a blower?

 

An engine... even one like a 300 cu in SBC would not be "limited" h.p. wise if you put a rev limiter on it. Say you limited the rpm to 5000rpm. Well, there are plenty of camshafts and tricks to make the engine make just as much torque at the lower rpm as there are to make horsepower at the higher rpm limit, say 7500 or 8000rpm.

So, if you have a motor that has a peak power output at 5000rpm, you would run say a 3.56:1 gear and a 30" slick to run 130 in the quarter mile. To run the same 130 with a motor that makes peak power at 7500 rpm... you would run a 4.88 gear. The amount of power the motor makes at any given rpm is determined by induction, quality of the air fuel mixture, head flow, combustion chamber design, compression, ignition, and the exhaust system among other things...

Make sense?

Sam.

 

yeah but would they ET the same?
that's what wins drag races..

 

Yes, that makes a lot of sense.
And of course Racers will try and compensate for the lack of revs with Gearing, Porting and Cam Profiles.

But isnt it true that if you limit the Revolutions Per Minute on any given engine, that Engine can only fill its Cylinders with fresh air a maximum number of times in that minute?
That would mean you would limit the amount of Fuel it can fully burn in that minute, which would limit the amount of Energy pushing the Car down the Track, right?
But maybe I am missing something???
I'm pretty sure it was Keith Duckworth that said " Its the size of the Bangs, and the number of Bangs per minute..."

 

Just came from the mokan site and Craig must have been reading out minds showing a fe dragster from 1962. The saftey regulations can also be linked from their home page. www.mokandragway.com

 

Would the bigger inch Hemi engines dominate the class pretty quickly?
Would the 283 Chevy--with it's infinite number of aftermarket parts (new and used) and cheap price dominate the class pretty quickly?

Brad
I don't remember Tommy Ivo being dominated by small block chevies? Building this mild 322 for my 56 had me thinking it would be interesting to build a 322 in some light car ( roadster / rail ) just to see how much fun I could have seing how fast I could get it to go.

 

You guys have been busy while I was at the swap meet......

 

Lets put this into perspective... if we only allow HAMBers and their distant friends and relatives participate, I don't think any one combo is going to dominate... we're just showing up one time a year to race each other... so it will be fun just seeing these cars compete!

The key here is getting five or ten people to participate...

Sam.

 

I think flathead dragsters need their own class for continuity.

 

So my original question still remains...............
Would anyone be interested in a new racing class?

 

would that be like the lameass drags where they only allow Harleys to compete,so they don't have to lose every time to the rice rockets?

 

I just think it would be easier to keep them grouped together so that the racing would be closer.

 

Wow--I'm converted (sorta). Z-Man is right about my thoughts: I'd love to watch a bunch of obsolete crap run against one another, and not know the winner before the light turns green (or the flagman drops the flag). I don't see the need to start yet another endeavor that puts SBC engines in 9-second and faster FEDs. But I really do understand a lot of guy's desire to build a cheap, affordable small block Chevy, too. Sam, I really like your rules. I think those are something that anyone could look at, choose an engine and build a car that would compete across the board.
Without reading them again, I think I might apply the power-adder rules to Flat Heads, and I'd also make an exception and let them run aftermarket heads.
Cast intakes for all--no sheetmetal/fabricated intakes (aluminum is cast).
And I think I'd also maybe allow aluminum heads and blocks for inlines: Only because I've seen vintage aluminum heads for Dodge, Ford and Stude, and there are aluminum Slant 6 engines. (And yeah, I've got one of those, but don't plan on racing it).

If it finally breaks down to needing more than one class, that let's it open to a Top Eliminator at the end of the day!

I was thinking heavily about the Too Many Indians thing for the last 6 or 8 hours today too. Maggie Thatcher once said "Concensous is the absence of leadership." Someone write some rules, put out a book on them, set a date to coincide with the future HAMB drags (Did Ryan say there might be a few of them next year?) and/or see if we can get a spot in an existing Nostalgia Drag event or two. Have the first "test run" at this year's HAMB drags if anyone can get a car ready by then, but start the series off in '06 to give everyone time to build a car.

I'd love to be a part of the rules committee. My plan for my company Driven Events is to promote a drag race or two a year after my swap meet takes off, but if the opportunity is presenting itself now for something in '06, I'd like to throw my hat in the ring as one of the guys (ONE, not THE) who gets this lunatic idea off the tarmac.

-Brad

 

Mind an opinion or three from someone who used to be a tech inspector and is only an interested bystander in the FED idea?

1. Do not even think of putting in a motor claim rule. As someone said, at the roundy round races it hasn't proven to be effective and just causes hard feelings between teams. People are gonna spend money on motors whether there's a claiming rule or not.

2. Don't make the motor rules so complicated that it require teardowns. I can't think of a worse thing that checking valve diameters, casting codes or anything else with a bunch of pissed racers looking over your shoulder. Nobody has fun when this happens. In fact, the more complicated that the rules are, the easier it is to cheat. I once raced at a track where the promoter took great care to keep everything stock in his Hobby Class. After I read his rules, I found enough loopholes he wouldn't have known to cover to build a very fast (and relatively high buck) race car. The expression K.I.S.S. comes to mind when it comes to making rules.

Were I organizing this, one very fair way to help keep the top classes lowbuck would be to ban ALL Hemis, SBCs, Big block Chevs, Windsor, 429-460 and Cleveland Fords. All of these motors have such a breathing advantage over the guys running Olds's, Buicks, Caddys and such that they might become discouraged and not want to play. No matter what anybody says here, they want at least a shot at winning. That's simply human nature in action. I'd put in a 410 (with a .060 cleanup) cube limit with no aluminum heads allowed. If you did this, the Chevy guys would still have the 348s and 409s, the Ford folks the FEs, and Mopar gurus the 383-400s to play with. Everybody could still run their favorite manufacturer's motor but race on a fairly even playing field.

I don't know shit about drag racing tech so y'all probably can poke a million holes in my motor idea. But it seems to me that this formula would make for some fun and nostalgic racing. Personally, I'd drive to Hell and back to watch a 401 Nailhead run heads-up against a 389 Pontiac or a 409 Chevy against a 406 Ford.

Jan

 

I may beat this dead horse to death, (is that possible) but I know that a lot of guys won't spend the money to build a nailhead,olds or caddy motor. I wouldn't.

I'm glad there is genuine interest in this. I don't know the answers to all the questions but I am glad to see that this post is not on page 12.

 

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD....... you guys that felt the need to fill up my e-mail with anti SBC shit...... I in no way thought that the class should be SBC only.I DID NOT SAY everybody should run a sealed SBC, i only stated that it worked for a group of guys up here that are still having fun with it, run whatever the fuck you want......


we all want to go back to that time when heads up racing ruled........when guys spent all night in garages trying to get another tenth out of it......innovating, designing...then bringing it to the track and seeing if they had what it took......



i have found there are two words that don't go together in automotive racing......fun and competitive, once you find that you must be competitive you start to lose the fun of it.......i dont care if it is formula one or soap box derby cars......

i had the good fortune to make the HAMB drags last year, i was overwhelmed by what i saw, guys and gals running everything under the sun, didnt care about a class or a division, line em up and run em, freaking amazing........EVERYBODY had a smile on their face.....i had found the promised land.........


PLEASE PLEASE disregard my previous posts......... so so so sorry.......best of luck to ya

 

now THAT'S what I'm talkin about!!!
But again, I do understand the desire of a bunch of guys that want to screw together a cheap SBC, or an expensive early Hemi (a nostalgia drag race without an early Hemi is like sex without the orgasm) and come to the show and play on their Pie Crust slicks.

-Brad

 

Flatheads... I'm also very serious about the flathead rail-job class that Grimlock proposed. It would allow ANY type of flathead... 4, 6 or 8 to compete... keep the engines basically stock to mild and have fun... It's a car ANYONE could build for under 2 grand... and I'd hope that we'd get at least five or six cars at this years event.

I'm going to start another thread when I get more details... but as of today, I got the OK from Carl, the track manager at MOKAN for guys from the HAMB to run something like this:



The only thing Carl asked about was the lack of a body... and I suggested that the builder could build a minimalist body and/or put some tubing there to keep his legs in...

Sam.

 

You know... SBC motors are just sooooooooo over done... why, they even had them back in '62 at MOKAN.

Carl told me about this pic on their web site:



I'm being a smart ass...
Sam.

 

I might just have to show up with a hudson 308 for that flathead class.

Roothawg - I'd be up for a new class.

 

Any American automotive engine that was originally produced no later than 1972. Two valves per cylinder. No overhead cams.

Five pounds per cubic inch for OHV engines.

Four pounds per cubic inch for flatheads.

Dave
http://www.roadsters.com/

 

Well I'll be damned...Watching this thread for the last few days has been amazing! Yeah, it's a lot like herding cats, yet it's starting to work - democracy in action. That's so cool that Carl at MoKan is willing to give this a chance. The input from people from such diverse backgrounds is way cool too. I'm one of those with no intention of building a car for this class (as of now - my hands are full with what I'm trying to get ready now), so have been keeping quiet, but it hasn't been easy - this is exciting stuff! You're all to be commended for your efforts on this. And once the rules are finalized, you can bet your asses I'll be figuring out a combo for this class. Right now, it appears the door is wide open to build a 1600 lb 354 Hemi that would dominate, but I'm sure you'll figure a way to close any loopholes before you're done. Keep it up!

 

Sam's a smart ass...hehe

Now....If I could just get this to pass tech.........I guess I should start looking for a SBC

 

hey zman, how about that 300 cube buick v-8 from the mid 60's skylarks. i'll bet that little mill would make one go pretty good!

 

I think the 330 inch class would be better. That way the 303's,324,322 could be included.

 

Damn, it took a long time to read through all this. I have started a T altered built the way I wanted, to run just for the hell of it. It may be more fun if I built somthing to fit a class. I have always wanted an eraly style slingshot dragster like the first Tommy Ivo dragster.

One thing you guys are not thinking of is the safety issue of sitting behind a junkyard bomb. If you're even considering a FED ofr altered you should try to be sure the thing isn't likely to blow up in your face. Think about flying rods and fire. Even hot oil is a bad thing. No matter what the calls rules, run a fresh motor.

I could design a chassis like Ivo used. We could nail down a spec motor. My sugesstion would be a common 350 Chevy block. A 3.25" flat-top crank kit. Double hump heads and your choice of natural induction. Most guys would show up with about 350hp.

You would have the chances to qualify. If one or two guys "over qualify", meaning they blow everybody elas away, they get their own "top Eliminator" class.

You guys talking about a ton of tech don't know what the hell you're saying. There would end up being a lot of waiting around and bitching. Don't even think about claiming a motor without starting a fight.

 

There won't be any claiming going on..............that just starts fights.