Would anyone be interested in a new racing class?

I'd like to limit wheel base to what will fit in the average, home garage, and fit on a normal "car hauler" trailer.

The logical way to make everybody happy is to run what you brung, heads-up, in time classes. No matter what brand of engine (or size) you like, you could run against another HAMB'er who qualified within a similar range. The bottom line is the time clock. That's about all the tech you need. As lng as nobody is sand-bagging in qualifying, it's a fair race. You'd get head's up, balls out, drag racing within established time brackets.

It's not like a boring, staggerd start (bracket racing) with break-out rules. There's not a lot of specific engine or weight restrictions. They don't have a scales at MO-Kan that I know of. You could run a hot flathead against a mild smallblock. The fans and runners would know what to expect. Everybody's there to have a good time.

 

The only people who fear a claiming rule are the CHEATERS! Where I raced, claiming could only be done by a top three finisher. If you want to see some FUN, CHEAP racing, Let everyone build what they can and have a $500 claiming rule. If Anyone wants to challenge me to a claimer race I'm game!

 

How could there be any cheating in time classes? I wouldn't give the biggest trophy to the fastest car at the show. The most glory could come from winning the most-hotly-contested time bracket.

 

I took the liberty of cutting and pasting this from another board to show what the Adams brothers are proposing. Gary posted some prices of rebuildable engines in their series. here goes:

If you are interested or know someone that is in running the proposed early V-8 class, I have some information regarding some of the engines that are allowed for the class
There is a man who wons a salvage yard in North Idaho and
has access to the following engines.
390 Ford==$375.00
318 Plymouth-$375.00
389 Pontiac-$375.00
430 Lincoln-$375.00
410 Buick--$375.00
425 Buick-$1,000.00
409 Chevy-$375.00
He will crate up for $35.00

Ifg you want a rule book on this class contact Gary Adams at acathy9@aol.com

Not to disparage anybody's trying to establish a new deal, but this is close to a lot of the ideas posted here and a lot of the leg work is already done.

The only problem I see is that I doubt anybody will beat the Adams boys with a vintage engine. Gene and Gary have been around the drag racing game since Hector was a pup. And he's an old dog now… Although, Don_Wow would give them a hell of a run. He's the other Ruler on the Olds engine. He's advising me on my engine for my custom and you'll need to go like hell to catch me.

cp

Gary

 

No thanks, it's not a Nailhead ( I do have a Aluminum 215 for another project that's probably not HAMB appropriate) and I want to run a Nailhead.... I love those motors.... and I already have a slew of Nailhead parts and knowledge...

Uhhhh... no, it's also the guy who walked around Lowe's motor speedway for 8 hours to find the one 364 intake anyone there had. Claiming on a vintage engine isn't something I'll be up for. I've put a lot of effort into finding Nailhead parts for an affordable price (I'm cheap) and I'm not able to just go and replace them if someone decides they like my engine...

 

Check the rules I laid out, Root.

It allows any cubic inch, pre-'61 non Chevy motor to run... and a 300 cu in limit on the Chevy motors.

It eliminated someone showing up with a 413 or 426 MAX WEDGE motor and cleaning house...

Sam.

 

I have gotten lost in the sea of replies..........

 

Here it is again... people can suggest changes and then I can keep bringing it to the bottom...
Sam.

 

Sam,
I suggest your ideas for rules arn't any better better than anyone elses. Why should you keep bringing your post to the bottom?

I say if you want more participation, have fewer rules, such as:

Open-Top eliminator = below 9.00 second 1/4 mile
A dragster = 9.0 to 10.0 sec.
B dragster = 10.0 to 11.0 sec.
C dragster = 11.0 to 12 sec.
D dragster = 12.0 to 13.0 seconds and so on.

Run What ever you like as long as it looks vintage and is safe.

 

You're right... why don't YOU draw up the rules and see how many people clamber to build cars to race? Oh wait you did... and they aren't...

BTW, I brought it to the bottom for Roothawg... and I did it so people can look them over and make changes as needed.

Your lame-ass rules won't work because someone who runs at the lower end of their class... say 10.20's all day... will win all the time. And if you bump them into the next class... then they'll be a looser all the time.

You like apples?


How do you like them apples...?




Sam.

 

I figure if y'all keep it up, you'll eventually come up with the VRA Rules from Goodguys. A couple points no one has brought up that are in theirs. All dragsters must be direct drive. I liked the old 4 speed rails with two gears only. But they disallow autos and I'd have to agree. Fire extinguisher system adds $500 but it's a must for a front engine open car. As would a fire suit and helmet. Costs are rising. Clutch shields, drive line covers, pinion support, aftermarket axles, parachutes for 2 wheel brakes, etc. Just build something and show up.

 

That pre 1961 non-chev engine sound's really good. No sheevie'z at all is even better. The fella's that are going to DVD this event need to nail down the sound's all these non-belly-button motor's are going to make.

 

Look guys....it's just a suggestion. There is nothing set in stone. I just wanted to stir some interest so that the guys that drive 1500 miles will feel like they have been to a race. It's all for fun.

 

I never said your rules were "lame-ass"". I just think you are pretty proud of yourself.

Don't take the brackets I put out literally. Only a dumbass would think a consistant 10.20 car against a consistant 10.95 car is fair race. We wouldn't know where to set the brackets for the first race, until we see who comes out to play.

 

I've been thinking about some basic rules nearly all day trying to come up with a fair jumping off point,I know Root doesn't care for handicapping at all and that's why he proposed heads up.
This would seem to be the hard part to hash out and have some parity where one guy can't just throw money at it and kick everyones ass.
How do these sound for openers Root,Sam,Racefab,Chili,Carl,All?
1)-1 ohv class(2valves per cyl.)(screw in studs ok)(No aftermarket heads
2)-1flattie class(any flattie head?No ohv conversions,aluminum ok)
3)-Spec. mild steel chassis for alt.and digs.(should help keep cost down and safety up)
4)-145 max."wb.digger
5)-120 max."wb.altered(should be long enough to allow for inline 6's)
6)-drive shaft covers 3/16 steel tubing securely fastened to pinion and trans.mandatory.
7)-min. wgt. 1450w/o driver
8)-max cid 335(Pre 67?)
9)-iron blocks
10)-stock rods
11)-cast pistons
12)-$1000 claim on engines(heads-pan)(no carbs,intakes,vc's, oil pans,ign.or headers)
13)-Must finish in 1/4 finals or better to claim!(claimer has to relinquish their old engine to claimee)Persons with broken engines(any type of breakage not allowed to claim)This should keep people from claiming just 'cause they broke theirs.(anyone refusing to allow claim automaticaly barred.)Amt of time?
14)-Max.4 2bls or 2 4bls(no injectors)(gas only for now)see how it goes.
15)-No Nitro,alchohol,nitrous,blowers or turbos.
16)-18 gauge sheet metal pan from frt. of mtr. to mid. plate,bottom of heads to pan.(Full surround for oil containment)all cars.
17)-min.gear 326
18)-max.gear 488
19)-trans.3spd Stk.or At.(turbo 350's?)or(power glides?)there is a wide selection of bell housings for glide apps.(No t-brakes?)
20)-no aluminum flywheels(unfair rotating weight advantage over t-conv.cars)
21)-all sticks must have360 deg.1/4" thick,bell housing depth containment for clutches.
22)-Clutches 1 disc only
23)-max.10"ribbed slicks only
25)-5 point 3"harness mandatory(SFI?)Snell helmet (sa95?)Fire suit(3-2a5)

 

I know you never said my rules were lame-ass... I said your rules were lame-ass.

And just because I lay some simple ground rules for a class... ones that take in consideration the advantages certain engines have over others... ones that take in consideration the history we are trying to imulate, rules that consider the safety of the driver... and rules that can be manipulated by those who actually STEP UP to build a car... you call that "proud of your self"?? Well, someone has to shit or get off the pot...

And say you "see who comes out to race" and then setting brakets accordingly is a damn good idea! People's cars will run what they run... so you have a 9.50 car show up... a 9.25 car, 10.00 car, 10.25 car, 10.90 car and an 11.00 car... how the hell are you going to set brackets for that? Oh, wait! I know! We can have the tower set the timers to let the slower car go before the faster car goes! There's an IDEA!!! (one that they started over 30 years ago... called BRACKET RACING!)

Damn... you're a fucking genius...

Sam.

 

Sam,
You and the next fastest car can square-off for the low ET trophy. The other cars go for the A and B classes. With hard, narrow slicks and no experience, the qualifiing times don't mean much. It could be anyones race. Who the hell cares. The "loosers" can lay down some smoke, then go drink a beer while you pose for photos.

The point here is to get some guys to build something and come have fun. Your smart-ass attitude doesn't help or earn my respect.

 

Well, whatever the rules end up being, it sounds like a lot of fun to me. Wish I didn't have so many irons in the fire already. Gotta get the 31 going again after killing my bell. Working on that one. Gathering parts for a "family hot rod, a 36 Chevy sedan. Gathering parts for my son's 37 Chevy pickup. Last but not least I'm putting up a bigger shop to work on all this stuff in.

All that aside, I think this is a great idea and will be patient on the rules. Heck, it'll take me more than a few years to throw the digger together. I've got a little dodge red ram hemi that would be a lot of fun to stick in a dragmaster style frame. I know clear heads will prevail and something will be worked out. Let the nay sayers take their crap elsewhere. The rest of us can have some fun!

 

All right guys, no more trash talking--it feels like we're zeroing in on something!

I really, really like Sam's list of rules. The other guy who posted the safety specs is also a good idea: Gotta be safe--hell, if not for the driver, then for the shrapnel the spectators have to dodge (like a clutch explosion).
I don't know enough about direct drive/trans specs to have an opinion, other than I figured that if it were MY nuts sitting over anything with the capacity to sheer them off in half a heartbeat, there'd damn sure be a plate steel between it and the boys, screw the weight!
I'd say just adopt NHRA safety rules, since they've been doing it the longest. One thing I would change, though, is inspections by date of the parts, such as seat belts and scatter shields. I mean, if someone has a set of perfect safety belts but they sat on a shelf for 5 years, making him buy another set is just money hungry.

I absolutely LOVE Sam's '61 rule. A question regarding it: Are block casting dates going to be checked? I think a better way of handling that is cubic inches of a particular ENGING family. IE: any 401 Buick Nailhead, since the 401 was available through '65. But NOT a 425 Nailhead. Displacement by '61, not manufactured in '61.
I say this mainly for the 409 Chevy guys: the 409 WAS available in '61, but nobody in the their right mind will drag race one of them. However, the '62/'63/'64 and even '65 truck 409s are a little more plentiful. I'm sure there are other engines like this. I'd get a stiffy seeing a 409 in a digger.
But you're absolutely right about the '61 cut-off--I thought about the Max Wedge engines too.

One final thing I'd change is your Hemi displacement: 360 allows the 354 to run, and though it's not a 392, Bob Walker at Power Play prefers the 354 because he can get more RPM out of it and about as much HP as a 392. We're talking around 800+ HP by the time you're done with the blower and all.
Granted, we're still talking about cast intakes (right?) but still. The 331 Hemi is close to being the same animal, but I think limiting the max Hemi displacement to 345cid would still let early Hemi enthusiasts run them, without whooping the snot out of everyone else. I think in a street fight, a normally aspirated 331 with the later heads and multi carb intake would probably be a fairly decent match against some of the bigger Olds mobiles, Caddys, etc.

Aluminum flywheels? I think they should be allowed (but that's nitpicking)

Personally, I'd want to run an automatic trans, only because I'd feel safer with one of the new trans shields between it and my danglers. I'm not sure on the availability of scatter shields for a 324 Olds, or vintage Caddy engine, etc. But again, that's me.

-Brad
Oh, and no wrinkle wall slicks: hard, ribbed Pie-Crusts from Hurst or Radir. Easier to do a 1/4-mile burnout with! (c'mon, if we're gonna go back in time, let's do it right!)

 

They are radial recaps I believe.....would you trust em? I am still undecided.........

 

Haven't seen the Hurst tires, but suedesled here is the one who makes them.
As for the Radirs, I was in Columbus the day Garlits ran a 9-something with them in one of his early Swamp Rats at the Mopar Nationals. I'm no Don Garlits, but hell, if they're good enough for him, I s'pose they're good enough for me!

-Brad

 

I like the safety issues, but I'm thinking the spec chassis is a bad idea, just make it fit some safety rules, NHRA seems to be the standard. The claim rule isn't going to fly, I for one am not going to give up a some cool vintage parts I scrounged for years, sorry. I'm also thinking that ruling out aluminum flywheels is a bad idea, just my opinion. I like the single clutch disk rule. Other than that I still thinking Sam's rules are a good place to start, some of your safety rules seem like they could just be lifted from the NHRA rulebook or do we need to just compile our own. Not trying to nitpick or anyhting just trying to ge this a little more cohesive and fun while still allowing people to build something cool and traditional...

 

The dated equipment is required by the track, and NHRA. You're not going to convince a track owner to disregard those rules, especially when you're talking about 10 second dragsters. If you don't build them to NHRA/IHRA specs on safety equipment, you're going to be disappointed when you go through tech.

It's one thing to play with 13-14 second cars, but it becomes serious when you get below 12. And if you run faster than 10. you will have to be licensed, and you car will have to be certified.


I'm going to continue to build my car as I had planned - hopefully I'll be allowed to make some passes, even though it has a dreaded SBC. If you guys were smart, you'd just build a car that runs 10.50 and pitch all of the other stuff. Those that want to use other than a SBC would be competitive, it would remain inexpensive, and lessen the chance of grenading blocks that are hard to replace. I know a guy that has a 354 Chrysler in a home made rail that has a cam and 3 deuces, and he runs 10.50 all day long. You will however have a difficult time running 10's with the new slicks. It's going to take some finesse to keep the tires from breaking loose. It will depend on track prep.

My gas car is being built to run a 10.50 index. It would be fun to beat a dragster.

The more rules you have, the more chance of breaking them. KISS...


Mutt

 

So 5 pages later................ and what have we resolved?

Should we just drop it?

 

That is what I wanted in the first place. I figured if there were no trophies, no money.....cheating would be to a minnimum. The HAMB is a close knit group.
I couldn't lie to my buddies....why would I?

 

You should give out trophies ,but not tell anyone til it's over what they are for...... Keep em guessing.........