Hi. Some of you know I have a shop in Ventura. I own a couple hot rods that are parked outside, and lots of people stop by to see them. This guy came by a month or two ago, and was interested in them. I'm not selling the ones I can drive (hoarder). Currently i'm working on a couple other projects too, but after adding up what goes into building a hot rod, (i'm kinda picky about parts if you know about my stuff, and how they go together) I just don't know if its worth it in the long run. Like most builders, I've gotten stuck in working for free before! There are alot of nice projects for sale, I'm thinking it might be worth it to buy one and refine it, but then other peoples engineering sometimes takes longer to fix. anyway, what do you all think? (remember I live in SOCAL land of the highest living costs) travis aka perichbrothers aka zibo (here's his lates email) Hi, again. Thanks for taking time to respond. I am not so much interested in a refined, garage queen car with a lot of finish work or chrome as I am in more of an "industrial", rusty-primer-patina basic , home grown look which is reliable, drivable and servicable for just cruising around, perhaps as far South as San Diego and North to San Luis Obispo. Coupes have a neat look, especially with a rake chop, though roadsters are nice, too. I would be happy with either. I like the idea of period piece but, to be realistic, I will have to have someone work on it from time to time so the simpler the better. I see your work as a sort of art-craft and would defer to your thoughts about design, etc. Generic rods are ubiquitous, too expensive, too gaudy and shiny, too production, and impersonal; they don't inspire me. What interests me is someone's personal statement; a friend of mine and I were talking recently and we concluded that you have an interesting and creative style with nice craftsmanship. We could talk about it later if things progress. I can afford $15-20K. (end of email)
it appears he is using your cars as a benchmark. can you reproduce something like them and still make money at 15k?
If you and him can agree on what constitutes 20K worth of parts and labor, take his money. It wouldn't have to be finished. You don't have to sacrifice your standards. He just has to feel he got his money's worth. It gonna take some math and negotiation.
Time really is money. How many hours (paid) labor can you provide for a $15k hot rod? Not many, I imagine, so best case is to help find this guy a car he can buy. I would not try to build anything for a customer at that price. 1- you won't make any money, and 2- he won't be happy with what you can really provide for that price.
There is a sweet ass coupe in the for sale section now for 18, He will surely take 17 , you make three. Wallah.
I'd hate to get involved in any project where it would be dictated as to what the project looked like or consisted of. I guess that's why I'm not in the business. I have never had a problem selling something I've already completed, and never had anyone dissatisfied. I guess if he handed you $20K and said to make it a "driver".........with no other restrictions......that's do-able. Been by your shop before.....art-craft is a good description. (I have a local guy in Simi that has been bugging me for the past couple of years to build him a car...trouble is he wants it all new parts....a copy of someone elses car and he really isn't going to like it when it's done, I'm positive of that.........I passed on it.)
NO.. there seems be be a plateau at around 10K alot of people can afford that number.. more can afford 8k.. and they realize (most of them) that an 8K car is going to have issues.. after 15K the buyers are more refined.. and expect higher quality.. and at 20 K the car better be pretty special, and finished nicely.. either way.. tying up 20K in a car on speculation is probably not what I would be doing if I had 20K lying around
160 hours x $60 is $9600 in labor assuming you feel you could do a low buck car in 4 weeks time, $3000-$5000 for a body assuming the better of one you find the less work needed on a body. 55 Chevy rear, find a wrecked gm donor car pre 85 and use a sbc and auto trans. I think it could be done, when working it out on paper make sure you keep all the new little parts in mind that add up as well.....brake lines, master cylinders, wiring , lights, tires and rims etc etc. make a plan that you feel comfortable with and stick to it, let him know any additional changes he would make would be an extra charge, I have seen a lot of customers want big changes but are suprised at how much they really cost. I will say these deals can be profitable just do all of your homework before diving in.
Hell, I'll sell you either my roadster or coupe for 20 g's. I don't think you would need to change a thing on the coupe to live up to your standards. And it has been to L.A. and back a couple times and bonneville and back last year. Good reliable driver with a flatty and nothing newer than '51. Lots of real "patina" rust. hahaha you saw the roadster at the invitational, the chevy truck hood for the decklid, olds motor with 6 chrome stromberg, 37 cad lasalle. saporn brought you over. it is not done yet so it would be less. and you may want to change some details on it, more of a late 50's car. I just happen to have found a 33 I want bad, and that is the only reason I think about selling. other wise, I understand your delema. I think it is sometimes easier to buy something part way there, and fix it/ improve it.
heres my opinion. Tell him that he can buy the corner of your shop for 2500 bucks cash. Tape it off, and say don't cross this line with any part of your build. HELP HIM BUILD IT. I don't have a clue if it's even feasable, or if you even have close to enough room for a "spare build" in your shop. You figure, he likes the traditional look, you can build one for 10 grand or so, and have it reliable. That's a guess, and it really depends on the level of your OCD in that time period. If you're picky, give or take a bit. Depends on your foundation of a body/frame as well. Obviously. Figure out what you want in profit, add that to the 10 grand and the 2500 bucks, and approach him with the offer. He obviously is using this money on something he knows will take a while, why not have him involved, he may just end up getting addicted and be hooked for life. I'm probably not a good business man, mind you. haha.
he is asking for a car that you built because he admires your style, thats a good compliment. I say do it if you can turn a reasonable profit, it sounds like you could make some money. How much do you normally build a car like he is describing for?
Rudy Rodriguez (somewhat of a big cheese in the Socal car scene)built my buddy's 29 roadster for 20 g's. shortcuts include, junkyard 350, single carb, iroc rear coil overs. It looks "bitchin" though. It's on the hamb somewhere.
Number seems pretty small to me once you figure not only build labor and parts cost, but the time to go find those reasonably priced parts.
I say put two and two together and build a Kayak Hot Rod! But really, put a good plan together. You pretty much know what your time is worth and what prices are for the type of parts needed for the build. How are things going in lovely downtown Ventura? Ken
Just say no. It seems he thought he was running your bussiness....ie- He priced the finished product for ya and then detailed its style and the end result as well...thats great for him, but has he mentioned what you would derive from the "build of his desire"? I do not think that is healthy customer-shop ,procedures to be starting..... Another thing to consider is this... Why build him somthing he could immediately sell and make a profit on? 20 K is not lunch money ,but it is not high end by any description either......
If you know what you're doing and spell out for him what he's going to get then what's the problem? Plan it, price it, build it. The guy's not asking you to work for free, he's not telling you what to build or how... he IS giving you a budget and a general direction. If his expectations are unrealistic, educate him. I think a lot of guys expect customers to walk into their shops and sign a blank cheque. "Just spend everything you need and if there's anything left over, buy some beer". I don't get it.
I agree. $15-20K cars end up at $25 to 30K and everybody pissed by then. Build budget cars for yourself and profitable cars for your customers. Find him an $18K car and he'll want you to "make a few changes" that you can charge fairly for and you'll both be happy. He'll be drivin' sooner too!
It is pretty damn hard to build a car with a specific cap on $, unless your doing a very cookie cutter car. Obviously, your not since he likes your style. My stuff always just goes by time & materials. We both know you can build a car for that money, but I don;t like to be that pinned down. There are too many variables. How long do you spend looking for a good body at a good price? Time adds up real fast. I would tell him that price is in the right range, but the job will be done at T & M and he just pays as you go. That way you don't get screwed at the end. Oh, and the comment above about him helping would raise the price in my shop.
Thanks for all the comments! I can make a pagelong reply as there have been some good points made. Not able to type much right now though. tp
it all comes down to the agreement you make with the customer. you can make money doing something for $20k, and lose money building something else for $100k-- and vice versa. it all depends on what you agree to do for the money.. that said, i like the idea of getting a good deal on an unfished project, putting your touch on it, and making some money. -scott noteboom
Time is money, Myself, I would spend 40 hours of time trying to figure out how to cut corners to stay within the budget and not have a piece of crap roll out of the shop. Either find a drivable car that he can spend a little on now and still drive or just pass on the whole deal.
I think the only satisfactory way you can build a $20K or under car is to do as much as possible yourself and don't charge yourself for the labor. When you hire someone else out to do it.. about all you could do is find a deal on a project that you can finish up without killing yourself on. I mean, I think I could have a hot rod going for like a tenth of that - but it includes things like using a freebie stock frame and axle, buying a $200 junker for a drivetrain, then scrapping the carcass of same for $100, using junkyard seats with the existing uhpolstery, painting it with Rustoleum, and so on - it's never going to be confused with a $20,000 car. And if you didn't count the reselling of extra pieces as you gather what you use to build it, it would exceed the $2000 figure, too.
cars were i work are 200g's and up finished we got a 32 roadster almost done no interior hes got $250,000.00 plus in it
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